The Frontline System and why its hard to implement

[OwnM3Z0 1,101]

so lately everyone has been begging Lukasz jakowski to add a frontline system for the more modern post ww1 scenarios, i have been no exception, but here is why it is so hard to implement and possible solutions that i thought of 

 

1- How will the AI work?! its labour intensive to make TWO AI'S for TWO DIFFERENT PERIODS 

making a good AI is already Extremely hard and is probably the number 1 thing Lukasz spends his time adjusting and working on, AI Peace Treaties, Diplomacy, And War Declaration are already extremely difficult to add with the current system, now imagine having to program TWO DIFFERENT AI For Post ww1, which would be a nightmare to even think about making ai act completely differently After A Certain Period, and yes, it is labour intensive sadly, but it would make a revolutionary game and it could be worked on behind the scenes added AFTER the alpha release

 

(Possible) solution: Don't Make AI Change after a Certain date, just make it move ww1 units in accordance to the frontline system, now instead of having ai act differently based on the year, it will simply act differently based on the troops it has, making things way more flexible

2-How Would it look like? and How Would It Work?

thinking about it, making modern units work in a frontline system is a bit complicated and difficult because this would mean that unprepared Civs will have empty border provinces that get blitzed which is actually realistic, thats ignoring the brainstorming of HOW THE FRONTLINE WOULD EVEN WORK?! HOW WOULD THIS BE PROGRAMMED?!

answer: i suggest using aoh2 code as inspiration and making ww1 and above units unable to move on unoccupied enemy land like the other units, instead fighting the opposite units until one retreats or is killed, and forts/castles are voided, simply an undefended province is automatically occupied by incoming forces regardless of being fortified (there's nobody to defend it) and making retreating from a province for post ww1 units mean losing the province to the enemy, additionally a new building could be border defenses, which covers 4 border provinces per building and tells you via event if your enemies are militarizing for an invasion, additionally adding better encirclement mechanics would be the final touch, i suggest consulting @uwutas his aoh2 blitzkrieg mod actually has good ai frontline systems 

3- its going to be too complicated like hoi4

answer: i actually agree, but you dont have to make it exactly like hoi4 or even make it that detailed, the aoh2 system (as i said) shows
you it can be done extremely simply, you could make it very basic and the modders will do the rest

 

 

thoughts? 

[Guest]

yes. We need frontlines as a opportunity to draw it in game. I think that it can be unlocked by certain technology. (The Frontline warfare for example). But it samely meens that we need a battle plans like in hoi4 because what a point of front if we can't to push by whole of them. 

And it's not so hard as it sounds. It's encredebly needed thing. Because If game wouldn't have a frontline system this means that a endgame might look like a game of dread. Managing the every unit in your army. 

[Guest]

also you need a good idea with illistrations and discribing what you really need. This will gave more attention of Łukasz

[Wayne23lololh 1,645]

When the losing army must retreat from one province, it is possible to choose where.

And this is a representation for what you proposed for fronts :

Forgot to show the legend :

Blue provinces : Adjacent provinces

Red province : non-adjacent province

1 : Units using the frontline system

2 : Units that don't use the frontline system

 

Edited April 20, 2024 by Wayne23lololh

[Thefernofrommars 86]

A front line system is kinda stupid, don't know why people can't just micromanage lol. If the game was multiplayer then maybe? but you can just pause in single player to reorganize your line.

And if you say "oh well that's not realistic" you have to realize AOH3 is a game that's meant to be modded, if you dislike a mechanic, mod it. It's quite clear that the scope of the game is for it to be a medieval era type game, similar to EU4 with aspects of Vic2. If you want a Hoi4 clone, buy Hoi4.

I'm of the opinion that a front line system also wouldn't be as fun as well, the point of wars is that you're at the helm and you're meant to do the strategic thinking, a front line system (at least in my opinion) would just make half of the war fought by a front line AI rather then you. If you've ever played Victoria 2 (which the AOH3 battle system takes a lot of inspiration from) you'd know what I'm talking about. Victoria 2's late game wars are incredibly rewarding due to it, every single move done by you feels like you did it. It's a feeling I've never had when playing hoi4 or god forbid Victoria 3.
 

Edited April 26, 2024 by Thefernofrommars

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Thefernofrommars said:

A front line system is kinda stupid, don't know why people can't just micromanage lol. If the game was multiplayer then maybe? but you can just pause in single player to reorganize your line.

And if you say "oh well that's not realistic" you have to realize AOH3 is a game that's meant to be modded, if you dislike a mechanic, mod it. It's quite clear that the scope of the game is for it to be a medieval era type game, similar to EU4 with aspects of Vic2. If you want a Hoi4 clone, buy Hoi4.

I'm of the opinion that a front line system also wouldn't be as fun as well, the point of wars is that you're at the helm and you're meant to do the strategic thinking, a front line system (at least in my opinion) would just make half of the war fought by a front line AI rather then you. If you've ever played Victoria 2 (which the AOH3 battle system takes a lot of inspiration from) you'd know what I'm talking about. Victoria 2's late game wars are incredibly rewarding due to it, every single move done by you feels like you did it. It's a feeling I've never had when playing hoi4 or god forbid Victoria 3.
 

okay, I'll trust you but..

> AOH3 is game that's meant to be modded

> Game moddable less than HOI4

> Profit!!!!!!!

[Thefernofrommars 86]

21 minutes ago, Alexey Navalny said:

okay, I'll trust you but..

> AOH3 is game that's meant to be modded

> Game moddable less than HOI4

> Profit!!!!!!!

HOI4 🤮
also, the game hasn't even released yet. There's quite literally no way to tell that the game is less moddable then hoi4 quite yet, aside from some peeks we've had at the in-game editors on lukasz's channel.
AOH3 is stocked to the brim with modding tools, HOI4 isn't. If you try to use TNO as some trump card, it took years to develop and had to switch between 3 different games/engines, and even then half of the project's goals were cut due to HOI4 being severely limited.
Sure a 1999 macontosh may be more moddable then windows 10, but that doesn't mean you should mod 30 year old hardware, or try to port over it's tedious assembly code to a modern OS.

Also, comparing HOI4 to AOH3 is fundamentally flawed, but I wont get into that debate for now.

Edited April 26, 2024 by Thefernofrommars

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Thefernofrommars said:

HOI4 🤮
also, the game hasn't even released yet. There's quite literally no way to tell that the game is less moddable then hoi4 quite yet, aside from some peeks we've had at the in-game editors on lukasz's channel.
AOH3 is stocked to the brim with modding tools, HOI4 isn't. If you try to use TNO as some trump card, it took years to develop and had to switch between 3 different games/engines, and even then half of the project's goals were cut due to HOI4 being severely limited.
Sure a 1999 macontosh may be more moddable then windows 10, but that doesn't mean you should mod 30 year old hardware, or try to port over it's tedious assembly code to a modern OS.

Also, comparing HOI4 to AOH3 is fundamentally flawed, but I wont get into that debate for now.

okay. only way to confirm what the moddable posibilities would be it's wait the full game release.

Therefore. Let's Just wait the game and afterwards do conclusions

 

But I was first who start this conversation 😛 and was wrong.

[OwnM3Z0 1,101]

2 hours ago, Thefernofrommars said:

A front line system is kinda stupid, don't know why people can't just micromanage lol. If the game was multiplayer then maybe? but you can just pause in single player to reorganize your line.

And if you say "oh well that's not realistic" you have to realize AOH3 is a game that's meant to be modded, if you dislike a mechanic, mod it. It's quite clear that the scope of the game is for it to be a medieval era type game, similar to EU4 with aspects of Vic2. If you want a Hoi4 clone, buy Hoi4.

I'm of the opinion that a front line system also wouldn't be as fun as well, the point of wars is that you're at the helm and you're meant to do the strategic thinking, a front line system (at least in my opinion) would just make half of the war fought by a front line AI rather then you. If you've ever played Victoria 2 (which the AOH3 battle system takes a lot of inspiration from) you'd know what I'm talking about. Victoria 2's late game wars are incredibly rewarding due to it, every single move done by you feels like you did it. It's a feeling I've never had when playing hoi4 or god forbid Victoria 3.
 

AI Wont micromanage, this is for AI

 

but maybe we should just wait out for the mods

[Thefernofrommars 86]

1 hour ago, OwnM3Z0 said:

AI Wont micromanage, this is for AI

 

but maybe we should just wait out for the mods

The general debate was adding a frontline mechanic, with AI using it just as a bonus. AI should obviously have some type of AI for this to make it more challenging.