Manage Vassals in AoH3

[Łukasz Jakowski 7,103]

Will be possible to set the amount of tribute your Vassal have pay (percentage of income), how much manpower have to give to you.

And also whether a vassal can declare war on his own.

 

[Unity 468]

3 minutes ago, Łukasz Jakowski said:

Will be possible to set the amount of tribute your Vassal have pay (percentage of income), how much manpower have to give to you.

And also whether a vassal can declare war on his own.

 

make them semi independent also

Edited March 29 by Unity

[GeneralHitler 36]

23 minutes ago, Łukasz Jakowski said:

Will be possible to set the amount of tribute your Vassal have pay (percentage of income), how much manpower have to give to you.

And also whether a vassal can declare war on his own.

 

And Manage Vassals Is Very Good.And Detailed For All Ages .And Calculated For All Civs And All Ideology.Also Modern Tab And Very Very Improved Than Aoh2.

Thank To Lukasz Jakowski😊

[IKayzerI 152]

I think, low medium and high should change the vassals indipendent liberty?

[Mov 100]

1 hour ago, Unity said:

make them semi independent also

They already are, just like in aoh2, unless Lukasz changes something vassals Will still manage their own country

[qxz 497]

2 hours ago, Łukasz Jakowski said:

Will be possible to set the amount of tribute your Vassal have pay (percentage of income), how much manpower have to give to you.

And also whether a vassal can declare war on his own.

 

It is a shame sliders were removed

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, qxz said:

It is a shame sliders were removed

sliders from previos game 🤢🤮
New graphical implementation 🥰😍
 

[Rodak Polak 487]

On 3/29/2024 at 2:12 PM, Łukasz Jakowski said:

Will be possible to set the amount of tribute your Vassal have pay (percentage of income), how much manpower have to give to you.

And also whether a vassal can declare war on his own.

 

Will the preview of each option show the impact of a chosen option on the desire for freedom or the relationship with the vassal?

Probably if we choose the "high" option, the vassal will be dissatisfied

[Kiwi 132]

We could control the vassal's politics, for example: the King, the Advisors (who makes war, who makes peace), ideology, and laws. Of course, the more authoritarian the vassals, the greater the risk of rebellion and destabilization of my nation through attacks. If you choose very strict laws, your country may divide or sink into unhappiness throughout the nation. Having said that, I appreciate the opportunity to express my opinion and probably share a photo of my city, Campos dos Goytacazes. God bless and keep you, Łukasz Jakowski.

 

 

[Yahya 29]

Make it so that we request an army from the vassale instead of taking manpower 

[thecarvalhogamer 27]

On 3/29/2024 at 9:12 AM, Łukasz Jakowski said:

Will be possible to set the amount of tribute your Vassal have pay (percentage of income), how much manpower have to give to you.

And also whether a vassal can declare war on his own.

 

Could you prevent the vassals under my control from declaring war on my other vassals? Because that is truly irritating in the era of history 2.

[age of civilizations enjoy 8]

@Łukasz Jakowski I was thinking that if vassals could be reformed then we could also link it to unions. I think that a goal could be to balance the power of lords. ie, a lord can't just change the type of vassal one of its lieges are without any consequences. Here are my ideas for vassal types and some related mechanics. 

Types of Vassals (idk about names)

• Suzzerainty: Liege has all aspects of an indepentant state. Liege pays "tribute" to lord. Lord has perpetual military access to liege and declaring war on vassal automatically declares war on liege. If liege declares war, then it gets to call lord into the war (as ally)(lord can refuse). Essentially, if a lord has suzerainety over a liege, the liege can't be a vassal if any other state. If the liege is at war with the lord, it becomes independant. The lord has no intelligence from the suzerain unless it has an army in its provinces. 
• Vassal: The lord retains the same rights over a vassal as a suzerain state, but in addition, the lord can call the vassal into wars (like ally) and built military buildings (including demolish them) directly in their vassal's territory. If the lord is at war, and the vassal is allied to a state its lord is at war with, the vassal has the choice to leave the alliance or declare independance. If the lord is at war, it has the option to requisition its vassal's stabding armies as its own (either the vassal's units become the lord's units or if mercenaries are as described in this post, then as mercenaries and return to vassal once both lord/vassal are at peace. Declaring war on a vassal doesn't automatically declare war on lord, vassal can call lord into war like an ally. If manpower is a thing, vassal can also be required to pay some manpower (as well as tribute). The lord also had an "annexation" ultimatum for vassals. 
• Dominion: Dominions are entierly self governing, but their diplomacy is the same as their lord. So they cannot make any treaties, alliances, wars, etc.. on their own. Lord has no other control over dominion other than the tribute and manpower requirements. The lord also has perpetual military access and intellegence from the dominion. 
• Puppet State: The puppet state doesn't have any manpower requirement, but it still pays tribute. The puppet state is automatically in an alliance with its lord, but other than that it has free diplomacy. The lord however has control over the puppet's government. So it can set tax rates, choose reforms and laws, advance the tech tree and build (not demolish) buildings in the puppet's country. The puppet has access to all of this by default, but if the lord sets something, the puppet cannot change it (the puppet can pass and repeal laws, but if the lord passes a law for the puppet, the puppet cannot repeal it). Also the lord can pick the puppet's advisors and kill the leader. Of the lord sacks an advisor, the puppet cannot reappoint them, but if the puppet sacks an advisor the lord appointed, relations decrease and loyalty too. Lord also has military and intelligence access to the puppet. 
• Protectorate: protectorate doesn't pay tribute but owes manpower to the lord. the lord can build any building in the protectorate (like with a puppet) and directly recruit armies for itself in the protectorate's land (altho the protectorate can also recruit its own army). war with the protectorate is war with the lord. diplomatically, the lord makes decisions including provinces of the protectorate (ie, in a peace treaty, states at war witg the lord can demand provinces of the protectorate). if the protectorate declares war, it can call the lord in as an ally. the protector can disable the protectorate's ability to declare wars. the protectorate can do diplomacy, but not enter alliances the lord isn't in. The lord can't pass laws or choose asvisors in the protectorate. 
• Autonomy(Self-Governing-Colony/Territory/Appanage?): Diplomacy of the autonomy is the same as that of the lord. The lord (as for a protectorate) can bargain provinces of the autonomy. The lord cannot pass laws in the autonomy but can build buildings (like for puppey states) and recruit armies in the autonomy. The autonomy can't recruit its own army until it gains independance. 
• Company Rule: Vassal state, but the lord has a law/reform to annex it. 

 

New Mechanics:

• Vassal Cycling: as time progresses, of loyalty is greater than liberty desire - loyalty reaches certain thresholds, the lord can "promote" a vassal to a higher vassal type. If liberty desire - loyalty is too low, the vassal can send an ultimatum to the lord to "demote" its vassal type (more autonomy) as follows: independant>suzerain>vassal>dominion>protectorate>autonomy>full annexation and puppet states are promotes to protectorates but demoted to suzeraineties

 

New Stats:

• Liberty Desire: if the lord takes actions that disadvantage tge vassal, this increases. Calls it into wars it looses, assasinates its leader, requisitions its army, taxes too high, etc... 
• Loyalty: this increases a certain amount depending on the traits of the governor general  

 

New Advisor: 

• Governor-General(Viceroy?): an advisor that only vassals have that only the lord can appoint

 

UNIONS:

talking about vassals, let's mention different forms of unions that could be more realistic! 

• Perfect Fusion: unions from age of civ 2,  2 states become one state and that's all 
• Real Union: two countries are not one state !! you can play as either state in the union and build buildings, enact laws, invert in provinces etc... as a completely soverign nation, but your leader and diplomacy are the same. If one state in a union is in an alliance, both are. When you play as either state in a union, you can build military buildings, recruit armies, bargain provinces of the other state just like your own. When you do diplomacy, you don't do it as your state, you do it as the union of your state and the other. Ie. if you declare war, you declare was as the state union of the other state and yourself under a new flag. same for alliances trade etc... Both states have the same leader, other advisers can be different. This would be used for austria hungary where one state doesn't make laws for the other, but internationalky they are both represented as a union. 
• Personal Union: Completely sovereign states, but the leader is the same. You essentially get to play as two countries at the same time but they can't declare war on each other. Maybe also make then have the same diplomacy for simplicity. Each state can be a vassal of different states tho. For example this can be used for brandenburg prussia that was a state of the hre, but also a vassal of the PLC and really prussia + brandenburd with the same leader. 

 

There should also exist some cycling between unions where over time a personal union becomes a real one and then perfect fusion. Maybe also states in a personal union have some reforms to turn into a real union or perfect fusion, altho that could be left up to events. 

 

Maybe these mechanics are too hars to implement, but either way thanks for taking the time to read and i can't wait for aoc3!!

Edited April 1 by age of civilizations enjoy

[Wayne23lololh 1,043]

You could add resource taking, ability to build constructions in the vassal, and diplomacy.

And add like options no and all for tribute and manpower.

I think that some specific setting could change the status of the vassal :

Vassal (base) :

• medium tribute
• medium manpover
• wars
• no resource taking
• no built
• diplomacy 

Puppet :

• medium tribute
• medium manpover
• no wars
• no resource taking
• built
• diplomacy 

Dominion :

• medium tribute
• low manpover
• no wars
• no resource taking
• built
• no diplomacy 

Colony :

• high tribute
• all manpover
• no wars
• resource taking
• built
• no diplomacy 

Tributary :

• medium/high tribute
• no manpower
• wars
• no resource taking
• no built
• diplomacy 

Protectorate :

• medium tribute
• high manpover
• wars
• no resource taking
• built
• diplomacy 

Autonomy :

• high tribute
• all manpover
• no wars
• no resource taking
• built
• no diplomacy 

 

Edited April 1 by Wayne23lololh

[age of civilizations enjoy 8]

true, and actually if we get culture in the game, then that could insentivise you to release civilizations as autonomous regions of compatible culture/religion for more stability/less rebellions. 

[Денис Живков 600]

3 hours ago, Wayne23lololh said:

You could add resource taking, ability to build constructions in the vassal, and diplomacy.

And add like options no and all for tribute and manpower.

I think that some specific setting could change the status of the vassal :

Vassal (base) :

• medium tribute
• medium manpover
• wars
• no resource taking
• no built
• diplomacy

Puppet :

• medium tribute
• medium manpover
• no wars
• no resource taking
• built
• diplomacy

Dominion :

• medium tribute
• low manpover
• no wars
• no resource taking
• built
• no diplomacy

Colony :

• high tribute
• all manpover
• no wars
• resource taking
• built
• no diplomacy

Tributary :

• medium/high tribute
• no manpower
• wars
• no resource taking
• no built
• diplomacy

Protectorate :

• medium tribute
• high manpover
• wars
• no resource taking
• built
• diplomacy

Autonomy :

• high tribute
• all manpover
• no wars
• no resource taking
• built
• no diplomacy

 

and hegemony and tributary?

[Wayne23lololh 1,043]

57 minutes ago, Денис Живков said:

and hegemony and tributary?

I forget, thank you.

[age of civilizations enjoy 8]

there could also be an influence system like in victoria 2 wgere the great powers (top 8 civs by total ranking) can have influence points in smaller civs. If one power has more than a certain threshold it can ask the state to be a vassal (of some type). Great powers can influence other power's vassals, but you also havw the ability to force your vassal to reject all influence from anotger power at the cost of some relations or liberty desire. 

[Dipto479 46]

On 4/1/2024 at 1:17 PM, age of civilizations enjoy said:

@Łukasz Jakowski I was thinking that if vassals could be reformed then we could also link it to unions. I think that a goal could be to balance the power of lords. ie, a lord can't just change the type of vassal one of its lieges are without any consequences. Here are my ideas for vassal types and some related mechanics. 

Types of Vassals (idk about names)

• Suzzerainty: Liege has all aspects of an indepentant state. Liege pays "tribute" to lord. Lord has perpetual military access to liege and declaring war on vassal automatically declares war on liege. If liege declares war, then it gets to call lord into the war (as ally)(lord can refuse). Essentially, if a lord has suzerainety over a liege, the liege can't be a vassal if any other state. If the liege is at war with the lord, it becomes independant. The lord has no intelligence from the suzerain unless it has an army in its provinces. 
• Vassal: The lord retains the same rights over a vassal as a suzerain state, but in addition, the lord can call the vassal into wars (like ally) and built military buildings (including demolish them) directly in their vassal's territory. If the lord is at war, and the vassal is allied to a state its lord is at war with, the vassal has the choice to leave the alliance or declare independance. If the lord is at war, it has the option to requisition its vassal's stabding armies as its own (either the vassal's units become the lord's units or if mercenaries are as described in this post, then as mercenaries and return to vassal once both lord/vassal are at peace. Declaring war on a vassal doesn't automatically declare war on lord, vassal can call lord into war like an ally. If manpower is a thing, vassal can also be required to pay some manpower (as well as tribute). The lord also had an "annexation" ultimatum for vassals. 
• Dominion: Dominions are entierly self governing, but their diplomacy is the same as their lord. So they cannot make any treaties, alliances, wars, etc.. on their own. Lord has no other control over dominion other than the tribute and manpower requirements. The lord also has perpetual military access and intellegence from the dominion. 
• Puppet State: The puppet state doesn't have any manpower requirement, but it still pays tribute. The puppet state is automatically in an alliance with its lord, but other than that it has free diplomacy. The lord however has control over the puppet's government. So it can set tax rates, choose reforms and laws, advance the tech tree and build (not demolish) buildings in the puppet's country. The puppet has access to all of this by default, but if the lord sets something, the puppet cannot change it (the puppet can pass and repeal laws, but if the lord passes a law for the puppet, the puppet cannot repeal it). Also the lord can pick the puppet's advisors and kill the leader. Of the lord sacks an advisor, the puppet cannot reappoint them, but if the puppet sacks an advisor the lord appointed, relations decrease and loyalty too. Lord also has military and intelligence access to the puppet. 
• Protectorate: protectorate doesn't pay tribute but owes manpower to the lord. the lord can build any building in the protectorate (like with a puppet) and directly recruit armies for itself in the protectorate's land (altho the protectorate can also recruit its own army). war with the protectorate is war with the lord. diplomatically, the lord makes decisions including provinces of the protectorate (ie, in a peace treaty, states at war witg the lord can demand provinces of the protectorate). if the protectorate declares war, it can call the lord in as an ally. the protector can disable the protectorate's ability to declare wars. the protectorate can do diplomacy, but not enter alliances the lord isn't in. The lord can't pass laws or choose asvisors in the protectorate. 
• Autonomy(Self-Governing-Colony/Territory/Appanage?): Diplomacy of the autonomy is the same as that of the lord. The lord (as for a protectorate) can bargain provinces of the autonomy. The lord cannot pass laws in the autonomy but can build buildings (like for puppey states) and recruit armies in the autonomy. The autonomy can't recruit its own army until it gains independance. 
• Company Rule: Vassal state, but the lord has a law/reform to annex it. 

 

New Mechanics:

• Vassal Cycling: as time progresses, of loyalty is greater than liberty desire - loyalty reaches certain thresholds, the lord can "promote" a vassal to a higher vassal type. If liberty desire - loyalty is too low, the vassal can send an ultimatum to the lord to "demote" its vassal type (more autonomy) as follows: independant>suzerain>vassal>dominion>protectorate>autonomy>full annexation and puppet states are promotes to protectorates but demoted to suzeraineties

 

New Stats:

• Liberty Desire: if the lord takes actions that disadvantage tge vassal, this increases. Calls it into wars it looses, assasinates its leader, requisitions its army, taxes too high, etc... 
• Loyalty: this increases a certain amount depending on the traits of the governor general  

 

New Advisor: 

• Governor-General(Viceroy?): an advisor that only vassals have that only the lord can appoint

 

UNIONS:

talking about vassals, let's mention different forms of unions that could be more realistic! 

• Perfect Fusion: unions from age of civ 2,  2 states become one state and that's all 
• Real Union: two countries are not one state !! you can play as either state in the union and build buildings, enact laws, invert in provinces etc... as a completely soverign nation, but your leader and diplomacy are the same. If one state in a union is in an alliance, both are. When you play as either state in a union, you can build military buildings, recruit armies, bargain provinces of the other state just like your own. When you do diplomacy, you don't do it as your state, you do it as the union of your state and the other. Ie. if you declare war, you declare was as the state union of the other state and yourself under a new flag. same for alliances trade etc... Both states have the same leader, other advisers can be different. This would be used for austria hungary where one state doesn't make laws for the other, but internationalky they are both represented as a union. 
• Personal Union: Completely sovereign states, but the leader is the same. You essentially get to play as two countries at the same time but they can't declare war on each other. Maybe also make then have the same diplomacy for simplicity. Each state can be a vassal of different states tho. For example this can be used for brandenburg prussia that was a state of the hre, but also a vassal of the PLC and really prussia + brandenburd with the same leader. 

 

There should also exist some cycling between unions where over time a personal union becomes a real one and then perfect fusion. Maybe also states in a personal union have some reforms to turn into a real union or perfect fusion, altho that could be left up to events. 

 

 

Maybe these mechanics are too hars to implement, but either way thanks for taking the time to read and i can't wait for aoc3!!

what about colony and satellite state

[age of civilizations enjoy 8]

13 hours ago, Dipto479 said:

what about colony and satellite state

imo, I wouldn't make a colony a vassal because what would a colony be able to do ? using the terms of @Wayne23lololh, it would have 100% tribute, 100% manpower, all ressources woukd go to the overlord, the overlord would build all buildings, ans it would have no diplomacy. Unless it's a self governing colony (that i would put under autonomous region or dominion). Same for satelite state. I'd make that either suzerain or puppet. but i think Wayn's vassal's being based on combinations of tribute/manpower/wars/ressource/build/diplomacy makes the most sense (provides the lord can't freely change between them for balance purposes). 

[Dipto479 46]

On 4/1/2024 at 1:17 PM, age of civilizations enjoy said:

@Łukasz Jakowski I was thinking that if vassals could be reformed then we could also link it to unions. I think that a goal could be to balance the power of lords. ie, a lord can't just change the type of vassal one of its lieges are without any consequences. Here are my ideas for vassal types and some related mechanics. 

Types of Vassals (idk about names)

• Suzzerainty: Liege has all aspects of an indepentant state. Liege pays "tribute" to lord. Lord has perpetual military access to liege and declaring war on vassal automatically declares war on liege. If liege declares war, then it gets to call lord into the war (as ally)(lord can refuse). Essentially, if a lord has suzerainety over a liege, the liege can't be a vassal if any other state. If the liege is at war with the lord, it becomes independant. The lord has no intelligence from the suzerain unless it has an army in its provinces. 
• Vassal: The lord retains the same rights over a vassal as a suzerain state, but in addition, the lord can call the vassal into wars (like ally) and built military buildings (including demolish them) directly in their vassal's territory. If the lord is at war, and the vassal is allied to a state its lord is at war with, the vassal has the choice to leave the alliance or declare independance. If the lord is at war, it has the option to requisition its vassal's stabding armies as its own (either the vassal's units become the lord's units or if mercenaries are as described in this post, then as mercenaries and return to vassal once both lord/vassal are at peace. Declaring war on a vassal doesn't automatically declare war on lord, vassal can call lord into war like an ally. If manpower is a thing, vassal can also be required to pay some manpower (as well as tribute). The lord also had an "annexation" ultimatum for vassals. 
• Dominion: Dominions are entierly self governing, but their diplomacy is the same as their lord. So they cannot make any treaties, alliances, wars, etc.. on their own. Lord has no other control over dominion other than the tribute and manpower requirements. The lord also has perpetual military access and intellegence from the dominion. 
• Puppet State: The puppet state doesn't have any manpower requirement, but it still pays tribute. The puppet state is automatically in an alliance with its lord, but other than that it has free diplomacy. The lord however has control over the puppet's government. So it can set tax rates, choose reforms and laws, advance the tech tree and build (not demolish) buildings in the puppet's country. The puppet has access to all of this by default, but if the lord sets something, the puppet cannot change it (the puppet can pass and repeal laws, but if the lord passes a law for the puppet, the puppet cannot repeal it). Also the lord can pick the puppet's advisors and kill the leader. Of the lord sacks an advisor, the puppet cannot reappoint them, but if the puppet sacks an advisor the lord appointed, relations decrease and loyalty too. Lord also has military and intelligence access to the puppet. 
• Protectorate: protectorate doesn't pay tribute but owes manpower to the lord. the lord can build any building in the protectorate (like with a puppet) and directly recruit armies for itself in the protectorate's land (altho the protectorate can also recruit its own army). war with the protectorate is war with the lord. diplomatically, the lord makes decisions including provinces of the protectorate (ie, in a peace treaty, states at war witg the lord can demand provinces of the protectorate). if the protectorate declares war, it can call the lord in as an ally. the protector can disable the protectorate's ability to declare wars. the protectorate can do diplomacy, but not enter alliances the lord isn't in. The lord can't pass laws or choose asvisors in the protectorate. 
• Autonomy(Self-Governing-Colony/Territory/Appanage?): Diplomacy of the autonomy is the same as that of the lord. The lord (as for a protectorate) can bargain provinces of the autonomy. The lord cannot pass laws in the autonomy but can build buildings (like for puppey states) and recruit armies in the autonomy. The autonomy can't recruit its own army until it gains independance. 
• Company Rule: Vassal state, but the lord has a law/reform to annex it. 

 

New Mechanics:

• Vassal Cycling: as time progresses, of loyalty is greater than liberty desire - loyalty reaches certain thresholds, the lord can "promote" a vassal to a higher vassal type. If liberty desire - loyalty is too low, the vassal can send an ultimatum to the lord to "demote" its vassal type (more autonomy) as follows: independant>suzerain>vassal>dominion>protectorate>autonomy>full annexation and puppet states are promotes to protectorates but demoted to suzeraineties

 

New Stats:

• Liberty Desire: if the lord takes actions that disadvantage tge vassal, this increases. Calls it into wars it looses, assasinates its leader, requisitions its army, taxes too high, etc... 
• Loyalty: this increases a certain amount depending on the traits of the governor general  

 

New Advisor: 

• Governor-General(Viceroy?): an advisor that only vassals have that only the lord can appoint

 

UNIONS:

talking about vassals, let's mention different forms of unions that could be more realistic! 

• Perfect Fusion: unions from age of civ 2,  2 states become one state and that's all 
• Real Union: two countries are not one state !! you can play as either state in the union and build buildings, enact laws, invert in provinces etc... as a completely soverign nation, but your leader and diplomacy are the same. If one state in a union is in an alliance, both are. When you play as either state in a union, you can build military buildings, recruit armies, bargain provinces of the other state just like your own. When you do diplomacy, you don't do it as your state, you do it as the union of your state and the other. Ie. if you declare war, you declare was as the state union of the other state and yourself under a new flag. same for alliances trade etc... Both states have the same leader, other advisers can be different. This would be used for austria hungary where one state doesn't make laws for the other, but internationalky they are both represented as a union. 
• Personal Union: Completely sovereign states, but the leader is the same. You essentially get to play as two countries at the same time but they can't declare war on each other. Maybe also make then have the same diplomacy for simplicity. Each state can be a vassal of different states tho. For example this can be used for brandenburg prussia that was a state of the hre, but also a vassal of the PLC and really prussia + brandenburd with the same leader. 

 

There should also exist some cycling between unions where over time a personal union becomes a real one and then perfect fusion. Maybe also states in a personal union have some reforms to turn into a real union or perfect fusion, altho that could be left up to events. 

 

Maybe these mechanics are too hars to implement, but either way thanks for taking the time to read and i can't wait for aoc3!!

what about condominium state (territory)

[Wayne23lololh 1,043]

On 4/1/2024 at 4:59 PM, Wayne23lololh said:

You could add resource taking, ability to build constructions in the vassal, and diplomacy.

And add like options no and all for tribute and manpower.

I think that some specific setting could change the status of the vassal :

Vassal (base) :

• medium tribute
• medium manpover
• wars
• no resource taking
• no built
• diplomacy 

Puppet :

• medium tribute
• medium manpover
• no wars
• no resource taking
• built
• diplomacy 

Dominion :

• medium tribute
• low manpover
• no wars
• no resource taking
• built
• no diplomacy 

Colony :

• high tribute
• all manpover
• no wars
• resource taking
• built
• no diplomacy 

Tributary :

• medium/high tribute
• no manpower
• wars
• no resource taking
• no built
• diplomacy 

Protectorate :

• medium tribute
• high manpover
• wars
• no resource taking
• built
• diplomacy 

Autonomy :

• high tribute
• all manpover
• no wars
• no resource taking
• built
• no diplomacy 

 

And yes, these vassal variants must be unlocked by technology :

Vassal : 476

Puppet state: 1880

Dominion : 1925

Colony : unlock colonial law (1493)

Tributary : 3100 B.C

Protectorate : 1650

Autonomy : 1760

 

This is approximative, and I may made some mistakes (hope no).

[Wayne23lololh 1,043]

Would it be possible that a vassal has the same ideology as the suzerain ?

Edited April 10 by Wayne23lololh