Age of History 3 - Spies in the game and their role

[桑榆不是鱼 174]

Spying is a very important function. We need him to be able to do a lot of things.
1, Spy's function should be related to the capital's intelligence department, and you can expand the intelligence department to get more spies. Technology can also provide the number of spies.
2, When the spy starts to operate, it will start to build up a spy network in a country, if the other country has your embassy, it will reduce the rate of decay of the spy network.
3, you can issue spy commands in countries with spy networks, there will be a progress bar similar to Age of Civilization 2 tech growth, which gradually increases the completion rate based on your investment and your other metrics to eventually complete the mission.
4, spies can do a lot of things, such as spying on military intelligence, you can show the movement of all the other side's armies within a certain period of time, and you will know the other side's army configuration and the number of reserve soldiers:
You can disrupt a region's production, making that region's trade and production income much lower:
You can destroy his diplomatic reputation, which means that his expansions and wars cause more negative impacts, other countries are more inclined to ally against him, there is discrimination against countries with different ideologies than his:
You can choose to infiltrate the area, so that when you engage the enemy in this area, you can reduce the terrain penalty, for example, if the opposite side is in a mountainous area with 2 points of defense bonus, and you have infiltrated the area, then the enemy will have only one point of defense bonus. And you gain extra progress when you besiege a fort in this area:
Provoke Separatism, you can provoke a rebellion in an unstable area on the other side, and when the mission is complete you can interact with the rebels, continue to invest, and ask the other side to start an uprising. Separatists are automatically independent after occupying a certain region for a period of time.
Provoking color revolutions can be used against countries with different ideologies, the more unstable the country the more effective it will be. This is a large mission and you will need to complete different stages. If the other side's happiness and influence is low, you could potentially take direct control of the regime and put a loyal opposition in power. If the other side's control isn't that weak and is starting to suppress your infiltration, you can also provoke a civil war before the infiltration progress bar is completed, gaining supporters based on your infiltration progress and a loyal follower state upon victory.
Assassination, an interaction available only in ancient times and special circumstances, will result in the death of a character and will gain great infamy if exposed.
Spreading Disease, create a biochemical attack that will wipe out your enemies in large numbers.
 

[mysta 85]

17 hours ago, xox said:

Spy agencies (post ww2 ability to make them/create them and devolop em like in hoi4)

I agree.

[kiarash 18]

Hi lukasz, I wanted to give an idea. I think that spies are very useful to replace the country's ideology. For example, in the game, it would be very good if there is a party system. For example, I tell the spy to bring up the communist ideology and increase its amount to a coup or war in the country. He changed the interior and the government of the country

[AmericanLiberia 74]

Pueden hacer desertar ejércitos hacia el otro bando de la guerra. Me refiero a que cambien de bando hacia quien haya enviado los espías. Si más de un país envía espías, que los ejércitos se desarmen en divisiones que deserten hacia cada país. Esto puede ser evitado si se acopla a un espía a un ejército o algo así.

They can defect armies to the other side of the war. I mean change sides to whoever sent the spies. If more than one country sends spies, let the armies disarm into divisions that desert to each country. This can be avoided by attaching a spy to an army or something.

[mysta 85]

13 minutes ago, AmericanLiberia said:

Pueden hacer desertar ejércitos hacia el otro bando de la guerra. Me refiero a que cambien de bando hacia quien haya enviado los espías. Si más de un país envía espías, que los ejércitos se desarmen en divisiones que deserten hacia cada país. Esto puede ser evitado si se acopla a un espía a un ejército o algo así.

They can defect armies to the other side of the war. I mean change sides to whoever sent the spies. If more than one country sends spies, let the armies disarm into divisions that desert to each country. This can be avoided by attaching a spy to an army or something.

+1

[KistrGrobber 45]

i got a idea on how spies gonna work, how about they will work by a reason, if your diplomatic relations are bad then you can send them to country, also there gonna be a couple actions you can do to the country in small menu where you sending spy to county
1. Overthrow government(do the civilwar in the country, leader of that civilwar gonna be one of the spy)
2. Change government(make your ideology or ideas popular in other country )
3. Improve Relations(improve relations with country)
4. Get positions of Units(access to see positions of units of country that you sent on spies)
5. Steal Techonlogy (it means if you sent spies to the country that you want to sent, you able get boost on researching for example modern tanks or artillery, if your country downgraded in tech)
6. Support Rebels (by this spies gonna start spread false information about country and from that some people gonna start support them and then rebelling gonna start)
7. Get information of upcoming war(spies gonna get early info about war that gonna happen in 1-2 years)

I used some ideas from replies in this forum

[General A1 2]

Mr Lukasz I think that the addition of spies in the game could be really significant. There are many ways I think spies could be used

1. Spies could be used (at least in the modern day) to overthrow foreign governments and install a government in another country that is friendly to the country you are playing as

2. Spies could be used to infiltrate resistance networks/groups or insurgent, political or terrorist organisations (assuming such things are added). This could give the player a deep insight into these groups which will enable the player to make more informed choices when it comes to how they will run the country.

3. Spies could be used to aid rebel groups in destabilising countries for the benefit of your own.

4. stealing state secrets of other nations I.e. information on nuclear weapons. 

 

[Samuel05 21]

I know I'm late to this but I feel like spies should have different levels ranging from 1 star to 5 stars(price also increases according to their levels), so basically how this affects the game is that low level spies are more likely to get caught in the oppositions territory and when the spies are caught it damages the relations of the nation, and I feel like there should be a way to also find enemy spies in your own province.

 

I think a great addition would also be assigning different tasks to your spies, for example you can assign tasks like

1.Discover Enemy Army Location

2.Sabotage Army plans

3.Steal Research Knowledge from the enemy.

4.Assasinate or kill leaders of the enemy nation.

These are my thoughts/ideas for spies

Edited January 17, 2024 by Samuel05

[Barbaris 115]

I may be too late, but I want to say that I like the idea that spies can change ideology, spoil relations between countries, cause protests and civil wars. This is what aoh 2 was missing. I especially missed the fact that you can ruin relations between two states, it can diversify the gameplay. Here's my idea: If in some foreign province the population is similar to the population of your country (by religious composition, by nationality, if nationalities will be in the game), then you can send spies there and provoke separatism in order to annex this territory later. Just please make sure that the rebels and separatists are not as weak as in aoh2. In Part 2 of the game, they pose a threat only in extreme cases. Make them smarter, stronger, so that they really pose a danger.

[Aliex999 82]

Given the idea about elections and regime changes that I have already expressed in another post, my suggestion is that spies, in addition to dealing with what has already been mentioned by others (stealing technology, observing the army and the economy, etc.), could support a faction within the state (a claimant to the throne or a political party based on ideology) to increase its influence.

This way, they wouldn't be limited to orchestrating a coup d'état, but by supporting one side or the other within the state, they could internally influence the political and diplomatic choices of the spied-on Nation.

I post here the idea about the election too👇

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I believe that a democratic system for elections in nations with a parliamentary system (republic/parliamentary monarchy, etc.) should be designed as a cross-cutting mechanism that can cover all nations regardless of historical periods and ideologies.

To elaborate, a mechanic representing the political factions within the nation should be added. By factions, I mean the different wings of the government or court. In Ancient Rome, these were, for example, the Patricians and Populares or the Caesarians, Pompeians, and Lepidians. In a monarch's court, there could be different factions representing potential heirs, ranging from more absolutist to more enlightened. In a fascist regime, there might be corporatist, extremist, and esoteric wings. In a democratic system, various political parties could be represented.

This way, our choices, based on whether they bring prosperity to the nation or not, would lead to variations in the percentage support for these factions.

EXAMPLES

Let's say we are an absolute monarchy in the 1700s. We engage in a series of long and possibly failed wars. The faction represented by our heir loses support, giving way to a more enlightened and pacifist faction. When our monarch dies, there is a chance (based on the percentages of the surpassing faction) that a civil war erupts, requiring victory to maintain our ideology. Alternatively, espionage or a series of reforms could be used to persecute political opponents or rivals to the throne, temporarily reducing percentages for other factions but increasing general unhappiness. Another option is peacefully accepting the change in regime.

Another example: In a democratic nation with a conservative ideology, you implement good economic reforms and achieve victorious wars. If you get re-elected, the leadership remains unchanged. If not, you can accept the regime change or attempt a coup (leading to a civil war).

In my view, introducing this faction mechanic allows for greater emphasis on laws, the economy, and war choices. It provides a consistent mechanic across historical eras and ideologies, where only the names of the "factions" need to be changed, whether they are heirs or actual political parties, along with some statistics. For example, in monarchies, the "election" event occurs only upon the death of the sovereign when a new heir is chosen. In democracies, it happens every 4 or 5 years, and in socialist regimes, it occurs when a "faction" reaches a critical percentage to trigger a civil war, and so on.

It goes without saying that our spies can finance parties in other nations to instigate regime changes, implement policies in our interest, or even orchestrate coups. Naturally, these "factions" would push for the country to submit or ally with nations that share their ideology.

I hope Lukasz gets a chance to read this comment.🙏🏻

[POLANDjapan 38]

 

Spies (idea for unit)

Would cost you gold and monthly maintenance, there could be limit of how many spies you can have for example 2 or 3 with certain laws/technologies or other form of decisions that could increase the limit to for example 10 in total, spies could be sent across all known by player lands and spies recruited by country A could be only seen by country A.

 

Possible spy functions

-"create claims" creation of claims on other countrie's provinces for diplomatic points (by declaring war without claims your relations with nearby countries would drastically fall and instability in your country would grow) 

-"sabotage army" sabotaging enemy army for not small amount of gold would decrease national manpower gain of country where this action was used

-"sabotage economy" this action, for a bit of gold would sabotage and weaken economy in province where spy is stationed

-"Murder Country Ruler" action that'd cost very much and would be risky as it could have only 20% success chances, spy stationed in enemy capital could have option to murder country's ruler, there's a catch though, it'd cost alot and have only 20% chance of success, if spy fails he gets killed and relations between both countries drastically fall

-"support rebels" spies could have possibility to support rebels in province they're stationed in, for example French spy stationed in Zaragoza could have option to support aragonese rebels for money, stationed in Grenada could support Grenadian rebels, there could also be possibility to support religious rebels for exams orthodox Christians in Ottoman empire

-"detect foreign spies" spies stationed in your country, doing nothing could be ordered to detect spies of other countries on your land for more monthly maintenance of spy unit,  for example normal spy maintenance would be 1 gold a month (just and example numbers) and spy detecting foreign spies on your land would cost 2 gold of monthly maintenance, "detecting spies" wouldn't find foreign spies instantly, they'd have base chance of 5% to find a spy (found spy unit would be deleted)  and this chance would increase by 0.5% each month meaning that after nearly 16 years there'd be 100% chance your spy will detect some foreign spy on your land this month, also foreign spies on your land that didn't move around at least for example 5 provinces for a year would be instantly detected and removed after year has passed 

 

For most of these function suggestions with changing them by a bit spies as a troops wouldn't be the necessary thing for them to work, I'd personally like to see the troop-spy mechanic in the final game though 🙂

[QuiteCloth 19]

(This isn't everything I'm thinking of for spies, but this is one suggestion I have)
 

you should be informed by the spies of upcoming plans by your enemies (such as wars that are being planned for against you)
also another idea I have that is less of a spy and more of an impostor among the ranks would be soldiers from your country that pretend to be a part of the enemy's army only to friendly fire them and overall sabotage the war effort.
(Less obvious methods of this would be these troops intentionally performing poorly to help you in a war and lower enemy morale)

[eric_R5 2]

 

 

Options like:

1- decrease relations in alliance.

2- support rebels (or increase unrest).

3- Destroy infrastructure.

4- Steal tecnology.

 

I also think that would be cool a spy system that works together with the state system, where you can place your own spy in your state to defend it from other spies, and if you send a spy of yours to another country and the state you selected is already being defended, a "battle" will take place to define the success of this.

[3264383641CN 2]

On 2024/1/9 at PM8点06分, bizacjum said:

军队中散布逃兵现象 

-10% 攻击力

-10% 防御

-5% 人力

捕捉敌人的计划

60个月以来一直看到敌军的确切位置

 

政变

 

获得对省份的宣称

 

窃取技术

 

刺杀领导者

 

国内骚乱蔓延 

-0.05% 稳定性

+20% 不安

 

挑起内战

civil war is great point

[3264383641CN 2]

Effect on ideology is great point

[riddheemangharai 1]

Can you justify wargoals or lay claim with spies? 

[IKayzerI 158]

1. Claim province

   - Core creation cost (CCC) reduction effect: 10%

   - Description: Casus belli (CB) can be obtained to declare war and core creation cost (CCC) for acquired provinces is reduced.

2. Sow discontent

   - Stability reduction effect: 15%

   - Description: Casus belli can be used to sow discontent within a country, reducing its stability, legitimacy, religious unity, and ruler's ability.

3. Sabotage reputation

   - Diplomatic reputation sabotage effect: 20%

   - Description: Casus belli can be used to sabotage a country's diplomatic reputation and relationships, making it harder for them to find allies and join coalitions.

4. Agitate for liberty

   - Increase subject liberty desire effect: 15%

   - Description: Casus belli can be used to agitate for liberty among a country's subjects, encouraging them to rebel or seek independence.

5. Infiltrate administration

   - Information gathering effect: 10%

   - Description: Casus belli can be used to infiltrate a country's administration, allowing the player to observe their movements and determine their war strategy.

6. Steal maps

   - Map stealing effect: 10%

   - Description: Casus belli can be used to steal maps of regions discovered by a country, aiding the player in exploration and discovering new territories.

7. Support rebels

   - Rebel support effect: 15%

   - Description: Casus belli can be used to support rebels within a country, making it harder for them to deal with rebellions and allowing the player to choose rebels that align with their interests.

8. Sabotage recruitment

   - Military power reduction effect: 15%

   - Description: Casus belli can be used to sabotage a country's military recruitment speed and capacity, weakening their military power and helping the player gain military superiority.

9. Propaganda Campaigns
   - Effect of reducing internal stability: Initial effect of 10%, increasing by 2% each month
   - Description: With the ability to initiate propaganda campaigns, you can decrease the internal stability and support of a country's population. This can increase the risk of rebellion within the target country.

10. Assassination Attempts
    - Success chance: 5%, with a 10% increased risk of rebellion if the leader of the target country dies or becomes unstable
    - Description: Attempting to assassinate the leader of a rival country can weaken their governance and potentially lead to internal turmoil.

11. Economic Espionage
    - Economic damage: Initial effect of 5%, increasing by 1% each month
    - Description: Using espionage to undermine a country's economy, you can decrease their income or disrupt their trade balance. This weakens the economic power of the target country, providing an advantage in warfare.

12. Counterintelligence Operations
    - Effect of hindering espionage activities: 10%
    - Description: The ability to conduct counterintelligence operations to protect your own espionage activities. This can make it more difficult for rival countries to conduct espionage and safeguard your own spies.

13. Diplomatic Blackmail
    - Effect of weakening diplomatic relations: 20%
    - Description: The addition of diplomatic blackmail allows you to manipulate and threaten the diplomatic relations of rival countries. This can lead to changes in the target country's policies or weaken their position in diplomacy. Diplomatic blackmail can be used to advance your own interests by putting rival countries in difficult situations.

[TatarWarmonger 14]

-There should be separate building to train spies. (Building's name can be spy school)

-The more schools we have, the more spies we get.

-More spies you sent to a country, more success chance you'll get.

-Spies can be used to get informations about economy, military, technology, geography, buildings, resources of a country. Also, missionary campaigns, murder attempts, supporting rebels, propaganda campaigns and destroying infrastructure are crucial. Must add them to game.

Edited February 21, 2024 by TatarWarmonger

[MamZupęMlecznąNaObiad 12]

In case you are playing with the fog of war, sending spies to foreign countries will allow you to see the number of units enemy has in thier provinces. At first you'll be able to see amount of troops at only a few border provinces but as your spy network will grow you'll be able to see further and further into the country. Also additionaly with usage of spies you'll eventually also be able to see buildings in enemy provinces, thier population, and other useful info about the territory. You'll be able to send spies to any country including your allies, but if the spy if found it will result in opposing country getting casus beli aganist you and losing some opinion about you.

Having spies will also allow you to sabotage your enemy. Based on size of your spy network, ranging anywhere from 0 to 100, the sabotage will have diffrent results. There would be dozens of diffrent actions your spies could take, for example;

-Sabotage military infrastructure, making it more expensive to upkeep troops or making them weaker,

-Sabotage civilian infrastructure, making it more expensive to build buildings and to invest into provinces,

-Question the integrity of the government, increasing unrest in all provinces of the sabotaged nation.

The speed of your spy networ building will depend on how much you'll invest in it;

The "base" speed will be 0.01/year. With each dollar invested the speed will increase. The speed cannot increase above 1. 1 is the maximum value you can reach by simply investing into the network. Also based on speed of your spy network you will be losing diplomatic points.

You could reach higher values by having a high military tradition, or your nation having some buillt-in buffs related to spy network.

Also special missions, or events will allow you to gain temporar modifiers to your spy network building speed.

You and AI as well will be able to build up your counter intelligence to combat enemy spies and decrease the size of enemy's spy network.

Also I wanted to add that speed and size of spy network would be two diffrent things; speed would be how fastly your network's size is increasing, and depending on the size you could use special actions aganist the enemy as stated before.

In enemy countries building up spy network will be harder than building it in allied or neutral countries.

Also the speed of building spy network would be increased by enemy's corruption; if it would be high the network would build faster and would be less likely to be detected by enemy counter intelligence.

 

 

[JohnnyDoe000 17]

Spies should eliminate fog of war in the area they're spying on. Spies should also be able to attempt assassinations on generals, and heads of state which will give the nation debuffs. Spies should also be able to sabotage infrastructure in a region.

[Rodak Polak 597]

Szpiedzy mogą powodować niepokoje społeczne, wzrost korupcji, pogorszenie relacji szpiegowanego kraju z wybranym państwem w wyniku szerzonej dezinformacji lub czego takiego, wszczynać wojny domowe, przekonywać wybranego generała obcego państwa do buntu, niszczyć infrastrukturę, wpływać na religię w wybranej prowincji szpiegowanego państwa (promować swoją religię).

Bardzo ciekawą opcją byłaby możliwość zatrudnienia naszego szpiega jako doradcy na dworze w obcym państwie. Gdyby gracz zatrudnił takiego doradcę to powinien on mieć bonusy odwrotne od podanych przy wyborze (zatrudniamy doradcę, jak zawsze. Ma bonus +2% do szybszego odkrywania technologii, ale że jest szpiegiem to tak na prawdę spowalnia badania o -2%, ale my o tym nie wiemy)

[juanjo 1]

Rob the technologies of the other countries

[null 32]

So, by default, you don’t know statements of another civilisation (like economy, stability, relations with other civilisations), but sending a spy will give you this information. Spies should be advisors that you can hire.

[multiwooduae 0]

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[Wayne23lololh 1,645]

When the spied country find out that we send spies to him, the relations will deteriorate faster, or more likely an insult sent.