Text file events will ruin modding and here's why

[OwnM3Z0 1,101]

11 minutes ago, Outlawexperience said:

I strongly agree, the in-game editor for aoc2 was buggy and didnt save anything in android, and since in android there is a way of editing the game's text files it would be great for mobile players

making civs worked, making special unions worked, making scenarios for the most part worked, the event creator was hella confused and buggy but if you got used to the crappy UI it worked aswell, the old editor worked for 90% of the time,  these feel like bad excuses to remove an entire core feature of the game instead of just... fixing the bugs?

Edited May 18, 2024 by OwnM3Z0

[Snajper 46]

17 hours ago, Łukasz Jakowski said:

Will be fine.

bye bye aoh3 modding 😂

[OwnM3Z0 1,101]

10 hours ago, Shiite said:

I'll just preface this by something: have any of y'all ever tried to mod Hoi4, and compared it to AoC2? The fact of the matter is, the system Hoi4 uses (which is similar to the concepts Lukasz is speaking about with AoC3) is much more user friendly and overall workable than what was in AoC2. 

The even editor in AoC2 didn't work half the time, let's be real. Having it all go through text files will make it much more easily modable, and overall could lead to more versatility eventually. I don't think the province selection is an issue, this can be solved very easily by Lukasz, say, adding a "debug mode" similar to paradox games where when you hover over a province it displays its ID. 

Also, as for Lukasz's responses in this thread, please be open minded. He is saying things will be fine because, as Unity said, this probably is not his main point of focus right now. This doe NOT mean that "things will be the same", it's more of a command to "stand down" so to speak. To not panic, basically the same thing I'm telling you right now.

Overall, the sky is not falling, and this will be, in fact, a boon to modders of AoC3.

the map is 16k provinces, and copy pasting in the debug menu will be annoying because I'm sure constantly clicking ALT Tab to paste province ID will lag low-mid end computers and cause a lot of issues, its also impossible to get province ID on Android, because a game that size would have to be constantly rebooted every time you switch tabs, this is ignoring that most android users won't access the files because it requires a lot of effort and needs a lot of apps like ZArchiver, I'm not doing allat to add poopoopoopo land as a playable civ, I'm not asking for text files to be scrapped, Im saying that at least add the old editor and patch what bugs you can while keeping the text file events for high grade modders, this feature as i said is convenient for modders but sucks for everyone else, the beauty of AOH2 that kept us powering thru all the trashy glitches was that anyone could add what they want when they want with no effort, it didn't require learning how to shift thru 23131345234364 files, it was simple for everybody

 

also aoh3 should be its own unique game that's adapted to fit the franchise, it shouldn't copy hoi4 and make half of the unique features almost modder exclusive to make mods better but cause the process to be much slower as a result and the game to have much less modders since anyone could add their own events civs and events and formables and it would have been called a mod

[Shiite 2,468]

2 hours ago, OwnM3Z0 said:

the map is 16k provinces, and copy pasting in the debug menu will be annoying because I'm sure constantly clicking ALT Tab to paste province ID will lag low-mid end computers and cause a lot of issues, its also impossible to get province ID on Android, because a game that size would have to be constantly rebooted every time you switch tabs, this is ignoring that most android users won't access the files because it requires a lot of effort and needs a lot of apps like ZArchiver, I'm not doing allat to add poopoopoopo land as a playable civ, I'm not asking for text files to be scrapped, Im saying that at least add the old editor and patch what bugs you can while keeping the text file events for high grade modders, this feature as i said is convenient for modders but sucks for everyone else, the beauty of AOH2 that kept us powering thru all the trashy glitches was that anyone could add what they want when they want with no effort, it didn't require learning how to shift thru 23131345234364 files, it was simple for everybody

 

also aoh3 should be its own unique game that's adapted to fit the franchise, it shouldn't copy hoi4 and make half of the unique features almost modder exclusive to make mods better but cause the process to be much slower as a result and the game to have much less modders since anyone could add their own events civs and events and formables and it would have been called a mod

Well, first of all, listing provinces like that isn't as tedious as you might think. I've done it in Hoi, and it really is pretty simple if not a tad bit annoying. 

But for the bigger point you're making, even if the previous editor allowed a bit more usability, it detracted that through, well, not working half the time. I understand some people aren't willing to learn modding as much as others, but every game and choice made within one's development is a gave and take situation. I feel like overall it is better to have a working editor, even if it is more tedious and locks out certain people, than a broken one for "everyone".

As for the second paragraph, this will in fact streamline the process. As someone who spent hundreds of hours modding, having the system be more intuitive like this simply allows high quality mods to be made easier. Sure, while many smaller ones might've used things like the flag creator in the game, if you ever spent quite a bit of time on one you would've engaged in hunting down a flag and resizing it to be the correct size. While this is only one example, the overall point is that this will not have the effect you believe it will. As well, I believe Lukasz supporting modder through making the process easier is him in a way rewarding them for doing so much for AoC2. I feel they deserve an easier system for all the work they put in. Also, AoC3 will be a unique game, but that doesn't mean it has to have antiquated systems that make things as essential as modding harder!

A modding interface is a good idea, but did you know this can be done through a website? There is one like this for Hoi4, which does all of the things you request. For example it allows to select states like you do in the AoC2 editor and use those selected ones for events/nations. If the fact some might not be able to access the new file centric editor is such an issue, I feel the best of both worlds solution is for any like minded members in the community to come together and create a website like that in order to streamline the process for people who aren't as experienced with modding. Such a solution would preserve both the sensible, working system those who enjoy modding desire, and allow an entry pathway for those who perhaps want to learn more but are intimidated by the sheer amount of things needed to be learned to get into it.

[Guest]

the json editors are kinda cool, but it sacrificates the ability of mobile fanbase to use them (which are not a few people, to be clear).
which is bad since if they wanted to try modding a bit they would need to decompile and recompile the aoh3 --- every time they want to add even the slightest of the things, resulting in a heavily annoying process.

so, if there was a problem in android, it surely will get worse.
and it's not like aoh3 wasn't a mobile game. so, yeah. something will be needed for em' on the long run.

 

[davidcalebe 30]

19 hours ago, Shiite said:

I'll just preface this by something: have any of y'all ever tried to mod Hoi4, and compared it to AoC2? The fact of the matter is, the system Hoi4 uses (which is similar to the concepts Lukasz is speaking about with AoC3) is much more user friendly and overall workable than what was in AoC2. 

The even editor in AoC2 didn't work half the time, let's be real. Having it all go through text files will make it much more easily modable, and overall could lead to more versatility eventually. I don't think the province selection is an issue, this can be solved very easily by Lukasz, say, adding a "debug mode" similar to paradox games where when you hover over a province it displays its ID. 

Also, as for Lukasz's responses in this thread, please be open minded. He is saying things will be fine because, as Unity said, this probably is not his main point of focus right now. This doe NOT mean that "things will be the same", it's more of a command to "stand down" so to speak. To not panic, basically the same thing I'm telling you right now.

Overall, the sky is not falling, and this will be, in fact, a boon to modders of AoC3.

ok but what about the mobile users

[Thefernofrommars 86]

6 hours ago, Shiite said:

Well, first of all, listing provinces like that isn't as tedious as you might think. I've done it in Hoi, and it really is pretty simple if not a tad bit annoying. 

But for the bigger point you're making, even if the previous editor allowed a bit more usability, it detracted that through, well, not working half the time. I understand some people aren't willing to learn modding as much as others, but every game and choice made within one's development is a gave and take situation. I feel like overall it is better to have a working editor, even if it is more tedious and locks out certain people, than a broken one for "everyone".

As for the second paragraph, this will in fact streamline the process. As someone who spent hundreds of hours modding, having the system be more intuitive like this simply allows high quality mods to be made easier. Sure, while many smaller ones might've used things like the flag creator in the game, if you ever spent quite a bit of time on one you would've engaged in hunting down a flag and resizing it to be the correct size. While this is only one example, the overall point is that this will not have the effect you believe it will. As well, I believe Lukasz supporting modder through making the process easier is him in a way rewarding them for doing so much for AoC2. I feel they deserve an easier system for all the work they put in. Also, AoC3 will be a unique game, but that doesn't mean it has to have antiquated systems that make things as essential as modding harder!

A modding interface is a good idea, but did you know this can be done through a website? There is one like this for Hoi4, which does all of the things you request. For example it allows to select states like you do in the AoC2 editor and use those selected ones for events/nations. If the fact some might not be able to access the new file centric editor is such an issue, I feel the best of both worlds solution is for any like minded members in the community to come together and create a website like that in order to streamline the process for people who aren't as experienced with modding. Such a solution would preserve both the sensible, working system those who enjoy modding desire, and allow an entry pathway for those who perhaps want to learn more but are intimidated by the sheer amount of things needed to be learned to get into it.

In my opinion the old event editor was garbage, comparing DODK's development time to a vic2 mod I've been working on, the vic2 mod was hundreds of times quicker since I didn't have to deal with the janky and unreliable event editor.
Also the event editor was extremely slow.

Anyway this just seems to be another case of mobile-kiddy brainrot.

Edited May 18, 2024 by Thefernofrommars

[Łukasz Jakowski 13,379]

Exporting the list of selected provinces:

 

 

List of province IDs from this video:

75;3585;3584;79;78;97;6563;3583;82;80;76;7380;2270;77;6550;102;6554;81;3574;60;6549;74;73;7377;6579;96;68;100;6578;

 

New events outcomes:

Annexation of provinces ID: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4:
annex=0;1;2;3;4;

Annexation of provinces ID: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, if are controled by "fra", fra is an example and it is the Civ TAG:
annex_from_civ=fra=0;1;2;3;4;

Annexation of Civilization, fra is an example and it is the Civ TAG:
annex_civ=fra

Civilization will get a Random General
add_general=true

Civilization will get a General:  Zhukov from the game/characters/Zhukov.json if exists!
add_general2=Zhukov

Civilization will get Economic Advisor(1):  Zhukov from the game/characters/Zhukov.json if exists!
add_advisor2=1=Zhukov
Civilization will get Military Advisor(3):  Zhukov from the game/characters/Zhukov.json if exists!
add_advisor2=3=Zhukov

# 0 = Administrative Advisor
# 1 = Economic Advisor
# 2 = Innovation Advisor
# 3 = Military Advisor

 

 

[Thefernofrommars 86]

Just now, Unity said:

Exactly, I prefer the files because you can easily fix what has to be fixed instead of going through so many editors just for one thing

yeah, it's more efficient then modding. mobile people saying that they can't do it is just some doomer mindset imo.

[Shiite 2,468]

2 minutes ago, Łukasz Jakowski said:

Exporting the list of selected provinces:

 

 

List of province IDs from this video:

75;3585;3584;79;78;97;6563;3583;82;80;76;7380;2270;77;6550;102;6554;81;3574;60;6549;74;73;7377;6579;96;68;100;6578;

 

New events outcomes:

Annexation of provinces ID: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4:
annex=0;1;2;3;4;

Annexation of provinces ID: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, if are controled by "fra", fra is an example and it is the Civ TAG:
annex_from_civ=fra=0;1;2;3;4;

Annexation of Civilization, fra is an example and it is the Civ TAG:
annex_civ=fra

Civilization will get a Random General
add_general=true

Civilization will get a General:  Zhukov from the game/characters/Zhukov.json if exists!
add_general2=Zhukov

Civilization will get Economic Advisor(1):  Zhukov from the game/characters/Zhukov.json if exists!
add_advisor2=1=Zhukov
Civilization will get Military Advisor(3):  Zhukov from the game/characters/Zhukov.json if exists!
add_advisor2=3=Zhukov

# 0 = Administrative Advisor
# 1 = Economic Advisor
# 2 = Innovation Advisor
# 3 = Military Advisor

 

 

more proof that having faith always wins out over alarmism

[OwnM3Z0 1,101]

thank you! now i will shut my trap and retract my opinion

[Hitler the secend 113]

13 hours ago, OwnM3Z0 said:

thank you! now i will shut my trap and retract my opinion

Nah it's always good to give feedback about game features before release. It helps the game. Don't worry about that. 

Edited May 19, 2024 by Hitler the secend

[Superzen_game 26]

Did goofy floppy finally stop complaining 😧

[YouravaragebrazilianAoCfan 293]

On 5/18/2024 at 1:39 PM, bun_dha4 said:

the json editors are kinda cool, but it sacrificates the ability of mobile fanbase to use them (which are not a few people, to be clear).
which is bad since if they wanted to try modding a bit they would need to decompile and recompile the aoh3 --- every time they want to add even the slightest of the things, resulting in a heavily annoying process.

so, if there was a problem in android, it surely will get worse.
and it's not like aoh3 wasn't a mobile game. so, yeah. something will be needed for em' on the long run.

 

it was a pain only having IOS version and JSON Editing will Be Even Worse For Us Iphone Players

[Wooodex 225]

23 hours ago, MasoMate said:

leave this community you are disgusting 

What happened?