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OwnM3Z0

Two Approaches on How to Fix the issue stopping lukasz from adding culture mechanics

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Recently lukasz said he liked the Idea of cultures but that it was too hard to implement because of there being too many civilizations to assign cultures to, this dilemma has two solutions and both could work depending on how they are pulled off

 

The first solution

adding the cultures mechanic without assigning any culture to any civilization and leaving it to the player to assign the cultures either in the editor if he wants a civilization to always have a certain culture when added or in the scenario creator, this system removes the weight off lukasz to assign the cultures and actually allows a lot more versatility and could have similar mechanics to ideologies where if you add spain and set the culture to andalusian you get Al Andalus Or Adding Inca and setting the culture to hispanic gives you Peru, you get the picture, this system in my opinion is the most logical and most flexible for the community, all lukasz would have to do after adding cultures is just to assign them to the scenarios he already made, removing the headache of assigning culture to 3000 civs and allowing for way more creativity 

 

 

The second solution 

Simply adding cultures on the map province and making any civilization added in with the scenario editor get assigned the culture of the province its capital is in, this system is easy also but i feel like it might cause some historical inaccuracies in cases like the Mughals whose capital was indian but their culture wasn't indian, this system does work for the most part for examples like the HRE where any provinces added on germanic provinces would automatically get german culture

 

both are easy, both have a culture map mode, but they are very different, lukasz should pick based on the one he finds easier if he wants to add cultures, but in my opinion the first option is better, i also think that a mechanic like cultures is not only vital but not having it would remove a lot of realism and immersion from the game

 

 

thoughts?

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47 minutes ago, qxz said:

What's the point of adding cultures if they are not even part of the base game in the case of the first example

it will be implemented into the added scenarios obviously, but when creating a new scenario you have to assign the cultures to the civilizations and provinces manually, that's all

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38 minutes ago, qxz said:

Perhaps it is a useless feature. The same could be said about religion. I see where you are coming from though 

 

40 minutes ago, Unity said:

Useless features, honestly I don't think Lukasz wants to waste his time with it

''useless feature'' is crazy, this is a very essential feature for realism and immersion, it completely breaks the immersion if i conquer the papal states as tuscany for example and have to assimilate them like a foreigner

 

 

don't get me wrong you guys have good suggestions, not wanting to tire lukasz is one thing, but sometimes with all due respect you guys meatride by calling any feature that's delayed or not added ''useless'' examples are navy, trade, etc, this might not all be you but this is a recurring thing here when these features are literally vital for realism

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1 minute ago, OwnM3Z0 said:

 

''useless feature'' is crazy, this is a very essential feature for realism and immersion, it completely breaks the immersion if i conquer the papal states as tuscany for example and have to assimilate them like a foreigner

 

 

don't get me wrong you guys have good suggestions, not wanting to tire lukasz is one thing, but sometimes with all due respect you guys meatride by calling any feature that's delayed or not added ''useless'' examples are navy, trade, etc, this might not all be you but this is a recurring thing here when these features are literally vital for realism

The Navy Lukasz even said the AI wasn't going to use

Trade system was garbage in AOC2, you can exploit it and ultimately useless most of the time

what's up with the Realism obsession? It's a Strategy game, not everything is going to be added Lukasz wanted the game to be not too complex for players to enjoy

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11 minutes ago, OwnM3Z0 said:

 

''useless feature'' is crazy, this is a very essential feature for realism and immersion, it completely breaks the immersion if i conquer the papal states as tuscany for example and have to assimilate them like a foreigner

 

 

don't get me wrong you guys have good suggestions, not wanting to tire lukasz is one thing, but sometimes with all due respect you guys meatride by calling any feature that's delayed or not added ''useless'' examples are navy, trade, etc, this might not all be you but this is a recurring thing here when these features are literally vital for realism

In a grand strategy game, culture is not essential. What is essential is warfare and economics. That is literally what makes a grand strategy game an actual grand strategy game. Culture or religion is a detail. It is not necessary for gameplay. Immersion in an indie title is the least of your and our worries.

Do not get me wrong, it is good to have features like religion, but as all things, they need to be thought out. You can not just say:

"Oh well culture is important for my immersion in a game"

You need to understand that not all features are worthy of time and work. Some features need to be prioritised and some need to be scraped completely.


In terms of navy or trade, no one said it is 'useless', I think everyone wants it, as it is part of what makes a grand strategy game - a grand strategy game. The ability to manipulate warfare and economics. If Lukasz does not want navy to be added, so be it. Trade is perhaps being worked on due to the recent 'showcases' of ships carrying goods.

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24 minutes ago, Unity said:

The Navy Lukasz even said the AI wasn't going to use

Trade system was garbage in AOC2, you can exploit it and ultimately useless most of the time

what's up with the Realism obsession? It's a Strategy game, not everything is going to be added Lukasz wanted the game to be not too complex for players to enjoy

really those are just not fulfilling arguments, the navy not being used by AI means lukasz needs to fix the AI to use the navy, if the AI didn't use infantry would Lukasz scratch the infantry division?

 

 

the trade system for aoh3 is resource based, when people ask for trade NOBODY means the old garbage trade system, we mean being able to sell resources for money or conditions, pretty much an economy

 

 

its not an obsession with ''realism'' its an obsession with the game actually having features, both the features above could easily be pulled off without making it super complicated, just because we want the game to have actual features that literally any strategy game has doesn't make us obsessed with realism, wanting those things is normal

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25 minutes ago, qxz said:

In a grand strategy game, culture is not essential. What is essential is warfare and economics. That is literally what makes a grand strategy game an actual grand strategy game. Culture or religion is a detail. It is not necessary for gameplay. Immersion in an indie title is the least of your and our worries.

Do not get me wrong, it is good to have features like religion, but as all things, they need to be thought out. You can not just say:

"Oh well culture is important for my immersion in a game"

You need to understand that not all features are worthy of time and work. Some features need to be prioritised and some need to be scraped completely.


In terms of navy or trade, no one said it is 'useless', I think everyone wants it, as it is part of what makes a grand strategy game - a grand strategy game. The ability to manipulate warfare and economics. If Lukasz does not want navy to be added, so be it. Trade is perhaps being worked on due to the recent 'showcases' of ships carrying goods.

The thing is.. culture is part of conquest and economics, its also part of realism, if you conquer a civ with your same culture you spend way less on assimilation and core construction and you get a new recruit base for more conquest, that's why i meant culture is important for immersion, all culture does is add very needed realism to the two features you mentioned that make a grand strategy game while not overcomplicating things, and who doesn't want more realism without more complications

 

this feature doesn't take much time OR work, all lukasz has to do is add in the culture groups, add the core construction bonuses, adapt the scenarios he already made to the new feature like he did with ships and that's really it, i'm not asking for a full thought out complicated system, its a very simple idea that makes sense and everyone wants and its in all grand strategy games, so it is definitely worthy of his time and it won't even take much time 

 

i understand voicing your opinion but the vast majority of the community want's this and everyone thinks it's necessary, so i think you should support it like i did for the text file based editor after i understood that people wanted it, you guys are the odd ones out and i can't understand why

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Yeah, what I suggested is not only to have a new colored map mod, it's to add depth to the population, which is important for economy, relations, their treatment and war. So I don't think that is useless. We have to find what we could do with it. It's a grand strategy game certainly, but it is about civilization, aka history.

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9 minutes ago, Wayne23lololh said:

Yeah, what I suggested is not only to have a new colored map mod, it's to add depth to the population, which is important for economy, relations, their treatment and war. So I don't think that is useless. We have to find what we could do with it. It's a grand strategy game certainly, but it is about civilization, aka history.

agreed, i would hate to see it get completely scrapped because of meatriding when its such a good idea for a feature

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, qxz said:

Num grande jogo de estratégia, a cultura não é essencial. O que é essencial é a guerra e a economia. Isso é literalmente o que torna um grande jogo de estratégia um verdadeiro grande jogo de estratégia. Cultura ou religião é um detalhe. Não é necessário para o jogo. A imersão em um título indie é a menor das suas e das nossas preocupações.

Não me interpretem mal, é bom ter características como a religião, mas como todas as coisas, elas precisam ser pensadas. Você não pode simplesmente dizer:

“Ah, bem, a cultura é importante para minha imersão em um jogo”.

Você precisa entender que nem todos os recursos merecem tempo e trabalho. Alguns recursos precisam ser priorizados e outros precisam ser completamente eliminados.


Em termos de marinha ou comércio, ninguém disse que é 'inútil', acho que todos o querem, pois faz parte do que faz um grande jogo de estratégia - um grande jogo de estratégia. A capacidade de manipular a guerra e a economia. Se Lukasz não quiser que a Marinha seja adicionada, que assim seja. O comércio talvez esteja sendo trabalhado devido às recentes ‘vitrines’ de navios transportando mercadorias.

Look man, with Religion or Culture we would have "Wargoals" to do saying things like "This country is Catholic and Italian while in these provinces they are Protestant and German the German people must join Germany! we will declare war" wouldn't be completely useless , we could have "Holy War" or "War Against other cultures" events and I believe that the best way to add cultures is similar to the "Regions" system in AoH2 in which each region has its own culture or we can add cultures in the same way that "Cores" in AoH2 just shrinking cultures and placing them in our settings 

Edited by Kiwi

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1 hour ago, Kiwi said:

Look man, with Religion or Culture we would have "Wargoals" to do saying things like "This country is Catholic and Italian while in these provinces they are Protestant and German the German people must join Germany! we will declare war" wouldn't be completely useless , we could have "Holy War" or "War Against other cultures" events and I believe that the best way to add cultures is similar to the "Regions" system in AoH2 in which each region has its own culture or we can add cultures in the same way that "Cores" in AoH2 just shrinking cultures and placing them in our settings 

Yes I agree

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On 5/20/2024 at 10:49 PM, qxz said:

In a grand strategy game, culture is not essential. What is essential is warfare and economics. That is literally what makes a grand strategy game an actual grand strategy game. Culture or religion is a detail. It is not necessary for gameplay. Immersion in an indie title is the least of your and our worries.

Do not get me wrong, it is good to have features like religion, but as all things, they need to be thought out. You can not just say:

"Oh well culture is important for my immersion in a game"

You need to understand that not all features are worthy of time and work. Some features need to be prioritised and some need to be scraped completely.


In terms of navy or trade, no one said it is 'useless', I think everyone wants it, as it is part of what makes a grand strategy game - a grand strategy game. The ability to manipulate warfare and economics. If Lukasz does not want navy to be added, so be it. Trade is perhaps being worked on due to the recent 'showcases' of ships carrying goods.

In a grand strategy game focusing more on medieval Europe, religion is NOT less important than the economics and warfare, you know how influental the religion was then

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