Concerns about Colonization System

[Shiite 2,468]

So, after watching the Colonization system, I have a few concerns about the system:

1. Are the population counts final? It seems very overpowered to be able to send a 2k man unit to a province, and get 200k men out of it.

 

2. Almost more importantly, the colonization takes place instantly. Colonization happening instantly, especially when it can give you hundreds of thousands of citizens per province, seems to be very over powered.

As for solutions, there are various ones I can think of, such as:
Provinces having the population of the settler unit sent to the province
Having a delay on the time it takes to colonize the province, depending on factors such as distance to capital and terrain
Having a force limit for settler units, so countries can't just spam out 500 and colonize the entirety of the new world in one turn

Overall, I just feel there is a lot of improvement to be had in this system. 

[Mirolit 185]

Indeed, instant colonization, as it was in AoH2, is not very suitable for RTS. It would be more logical for this to take more or less considerable time, and there was a risk of an uprising, which would require keeping troops, as well as preventing the transformation of tiny states with 1 province into colonial superpowers.

As for the growth of the colony's population, it would be possible to make the mechanics of subjugating the local population (similar to assimilation): at the beginning of colonization, the settlement size would be small, but as colonization progressed, more and more local people would become "subjects" of the colonizing country. At the same time, in more densely populated provinces, the risk of an indigenous uprising would be higher, and a rebel victory would destroy the settlement (something similar was in EU3), and I think that such a mechanic would improve the balance, add realism and, in general, would be quite interesting.

[Shiite 2,468]

3 minutes ago, Mirolit said:

Indeed, instant colonization, as it was in AoH2, is not very suitable for RTS. It would be more logical for this to take more or less considerable time, and there was a risk of an uprising, which would require keeping troops, as well as preventing the transformation of tiny states with 1 province into colonial superpowers.

As for the growth of the colony's population, it would be possible to make the mechanics of subjugating the local population (similar to assimilation): at the beginning of colonization, the settlement size would be small, but as colonization progressed, more and more local people would become "subjects" of the colonizing country. At the same time, in more densely populated provinces, the risk of an indigenous uprising would be higher, and a rebel victory would destroy the settlement (something similar was in EU3), and I think that such a mechanic would improve the balance, add realism and, in general, would be quite interesting.

I agree! The game is already Europa Universalis lite, it wouldn't hurt to lean in a bit more to its systems for inspiration. 

[Łukasz Jakowski 13,389]

1. No, it is now just random number. It will definitely change and should depend on the number of settlers sent to the province.And then there should be some bonus for the growth rate, or extra migration to the newly colonized province?

[Neyoto Hiro 10]

For minor details for the settlers, I think there should be deaths happening like there are 2k settlers, depending on how many unoccupied provinces they pass before they reach the designated location there should be at least a 1% death rate. Just for minor details if ever needed.

[Łukasz Jakowski 13,389]

2. I'll think about it, it's a very early version.

[MarerjhAdditionalAccount 38]

5 minutes ago, Łukasz Jakowski said:

1. No, it is now just random number. It will definitely change and should depend on the number of settlers sent to the province.And then there should be some bonus for the growth rate, or extra migration to the newly colonized province?

IMHO, in Age of History II growth rate bonus proved itself as pretty useless thing when talking about long-time population increase in low-populated provinces. I think migration mechanic might be a great solution, both realistic and interesting. As for me, ability to move population of conquered provinces to colonize other continents sounds great. Maybe there can even be a special pool, filled with people who ready to migrate?

[MarerjhAdditionalAccount 38]

Instant colonization sounds reasonable for game like AOH. Imagine spending at least year to colonize one province? Hold in mind there might be almost 5000 provinces just in north america.

[YusufAliDE 246]

34 minutes ago, Łukasz Jakowski said:

1. Hayır, artık sadece rastgele bir sayıdır. Bu kesinlikle değişecek ve bölgeye gönderilen yerleşimcilerin sayısına bağlı olacak. Peki büyüme oranı için bir miktar bonus veya yeni sömürgeleştirilen eyalete ekstra göç olmalı mı?

Must be

[Shiite 2,468]

1 hour ago, Łukasz Jakowski said:

1. No, it is now just random number. It will definitely change and should depend on the number of settlers sent to the province.And then there should be some bonus for the growth rate, or extra migration to the newly colonized province?

Good, I hope the number is similar to the amount of settlers sent. As for growth rate, yes, having one of those (or both, to a lesser extent) being much higher for a recently colonized province seems like a better way of simulating it than having a large population immediately. 

[Shiite 2,468]

1 hour ago, Łukasz Jakowski said:

2. I'll think about it, it's a very early version.

While one user made a good point about the amount of provinces, perhaps the colonization speed could be increased by Techs and such? Like, the Roman Empire wouldn't be able to colonize all of Eurasia, but Europeans in the Age of Discovery could colonize two continents. As well, I feel there should a least be a modding option to control colonization like, say:

Someone wants to make a restriction on certain civilizations can colonize Africa. To accomplish this, he would create a Quinine (the drug invented to cure malaria) tech that is required to colonize provinces in Africa. Only after civilizations get this technology can they colonize the certain provinces. I feel this would be a way for modders to increase the realism of the game without you specifically having to make it that restricted, so it would be a good return for (hopefully) not much investment. 

[Edmilson Gomes 10]

2 horas atrás, Xiita disse:

Assim, depois de observar o sistema de Colonização, tenho algumas preocupações sobre o sistema:

1. As contagens da população são definitivas? Parece muito poderoso poder enviar uma unidade de 2 mil homens para uma província e retirar 200 mil homens dela.

 

2. Mais importante ainda, a colonização ocorre instantaneamente. A colonização que acontece instantaneamente, especialmente quando pode gerar centenas de milhares de cidadãos pela província, parece estar muito sobrecarregada.

Quanto às soluções, posso pensar em várias, tais como:
Províncias com a população da unidade de colono enviada para a província
Ter um atraso no tempo necessário para colonizar a província, dependendo de fatores como a distância à capital e Terreno
Ter um limite de força para unidades de colonização, para que os países não possam simplesmente enviar spam para 500 e colonizar todo o novo mundo de uma só vez.

No geral, sinto que há muitas melhorias neste sistema. 

1.Acho que seria bom botar um tempo de pelo menos um mês para colonizar uma província, assim ficaria mais realista e impediria de pintar o mapa todo;

2.sobre a população seria bom ter imigração de povos da nossa nação e de outras pra aumentar a população e tmb seria bom ter uma forma de aumentar esse incentivo nas províncias do nosso país pra migrarem pras colônias.

Edited January 19, 2024 by Edmilson Gomes
Erro

[Rodak Polak 597]

3 hours ago, Łukasz Jakowski said:

2. Zastanowię się nad tym, to bardzo wczesna wersja.

My idea for colonisation: every country which unlocked colonization can send their sattlers but province goes to country that sends first more sattlers than 25 units. It will lead to colonial provices that are multicultural and multinational like it is in the real life.

Example: Netherland send to province New York 16 units of sattlers but then England sent its 25 units of english so province goes to England because they first send required 25 units of your own sattlers. Population in province will be 16 units + 25 units = 41 units = 41 000 people (and its no all english. 16 000 dutch people and 25 000 english people).

Fight for the best provinces will result that good provinces will have many people from different countries and weak provinces will have small number of people from country that decided to colonize a weak province. It also can solve problem of how many people should province have. It will depands on how many coutries send how many units. Even NEW YORK once had only 50 000 inhabitants

Also sending sattlers to other countries and own provinces should be possible. For Example Albanians wanta to have Albanians in Kosovo they should sent their sattlers. Making something like Operation Vistula should be possible for every country in the game after unlocking technology required for it.

Edited January 19, 2024 by Rodak Polak

[mrx 49]

16 hours ago, Mirolit said:

Действительно, мгновенная колонизация, как это было в AoH2, не очень подходит для RTS. Логичнее было бы, чтобы это заняло более или менее значительное время, и существовал риск восстания, которое потребовало бы содержания войск, а также предотвращения превращения крошечных государств с 1 провинцией в колониальные сверхдержавы.

Что касается роста населения колонии, то можно было бы создать механизм подчинения местного населения (аналогичный ассимиляции): в начале колонизации размер поселения был бы небольшим, но по мере развития колонизации все больше и больше местных жителей становились бы "подданными" страны-колонизатора. В то же время в более густонаселенных провинциях риск восстания коренного населения был бы выше, а победа повстанцев уничтожила бы поселение (нечто подобное было в EU3), и я думаю, что такая механика улучшила бы баланс, добавила реализма и, в целом, была бы довольно интересной.

yes  just do how it work in Vic3

[Wayne23lololh 1,645]

I don't know if my idea is good or bad, so it could be changed.

The colonization of inner territory where major cities originally located, it also takes the surrounding provinces, but it must take more time for settlers to colonize, like 180 days. So the progress could be somewhat faster since the game has a lot of provinces. This doesn't apply to coastal provinces.