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Age of History 3
OwnM3Z0

we are getting an unfinished AOH3 on release whether we like it or not

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pretty much the title, people are actually bringing up so many great idea's that i cannot see being immediately added on release, especially in an indie game developed by one polish guy with little resources or help, all your features aren't coming in release, the game hasn't even hit beta phase and we don't have cultures or nav and we're over here talking about a POP SYSTEM?!!

 

the truth is, the game will be unfinished on release because that's what alpha is, it's not lukasz fault, he will update after the release, we just need to wait

 

AOH3 will likely feel very underwhelming/boring at the start after a bit but that's normal because this isn't meant to be the final product, not even meant to be a prototype of it, this is simply the soil that lukasz will plant the seeds of the game into

 

also mobile release is 100% getting delayed more than a year after PC release

 

TLDR: don't get your hopes up or be surprised if the game feels unfinished or empty/boring on alpha release because it's still not even been released fully technically speaking

 

@Łukasz Jakowski it's 100% fine if you don't add cancelled features like union, cultures, navy etc at the moment, just balance them and add them post alpha/beta instead of scrapping them because they're too hard or because they were broken or easy when they were in aoh2 like unions, balance them instead and build from what was in aoh2 while patching the holes in the original concepts, many people suggested replacing unions with personal unions for example

 

that's it, bye

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7 minutes ago, Unity said:

or end up disappearing for 3 more years 

that's my biggest fear, the game would become dogwater within 2 years if it had the same fate as aoh2

 

i honestly trust lukasz but he needs to understand that we are going to pay money for the game, meaning this is a transactional exchange, if he wants to add those features but upcharge 5 more dollars i wouldn't mind but atleast i would get my moneys worth

 

a grand strategy game like that for 10 bucks is definitely worth the money, but it's still missing too much for me to consider buying it if it stays the same 2 years after alpha since i would pay the 10 bucks and get bored quickly due to the lack of features before switching to eu4 or ck3 (this isn't me this is my take on the current grand strategy market)

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30 minutes ago, AmericanLiberia said:

Why everyone want "cultures" or "navy"? I don't see those things bringing something to the game, the most probably thing is they bug and causes problems instead of being fun. Just stop being so dramatic

this I agree 

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, AmericanLiberia said:

Why everyone want "cultures" or "navy"? I don't see those things bringing something to the game, the most probably thing is they bug and causes problems instead of being fun. Just stop being so dramatic

respectfully, your opinion is dogwater, like it's so bad

 

 

i think it's pretty unrealistic + annoying + unimmersive for italy to have to assimilate the entire peninsula after uniting it, that's literally trash, or for castile to have to assimilate leon during a reconquista gameplay, or for austria to have to assimilate styria, or for muscoy to have to assimilate Novgorod etc etc etc... it's super unrealistic, it pushes you off, and it acts like those aren't exactly the same peoples just under different rule

 

and the ''bugs'' point is so ridiculous it's funny bro, im pretty sure adding in changing leaders that are AI generated or adding in religion as a feature is much more prone to bugs than cultures or navy, that logic could be used to erase the entire game, the bugs are on the dev since he does the programming, not on the feature itself, it's like saying land units wouldn't be added because ''buggy''

 

NAVY LITERALLY DEFINED ENTIRE ERA'S AND WARS/PERIODS OF DISCOVERY, ENTIRE EMPIRES, ENTIRE CULTURES, NAVY DEFINED AT PERIODS OF TIME WHO WAS THE STRONGEST AND WHO WAS THE WEAK, NAVY IS AS ESSENTIAL AS LAND UNITS IF NOT MORE

these arguments are so hard to take seriously that i refuse to believe people who say this do it because they actually think NAVY IS IRRELIVANT?!

it just comes off coddling lukasz (which is different from not overloading him or wanting him to relax, especially with some essential features that i'm not even asking for rn but in the long term to not tire him out), it's almost like you forget this game is going to be paid for, meaning it needs to be at least somewhat on par with the average grand strategy, if eu4 or ck3 didn't have navy or cultures they would be dead and everyone would call them garbage

Edited by OwnM3Z0

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40 minutes ago, Unity said:

this I agree 

I think that a game with all his features working together would be much better than one with a thousand things to do but everything scattered. Also, the first way I say is better for new people to understand and entering the community :3

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, AmericanLiberia said:

People said that navy is irrelevant, because IS A GAME, not history. If want to learn history, take a book, don't play games. And, if you don't know, Italy was a conglomerate of peoples who get together in a point, for example. Their create a culture after being united, didn't have one together before, much less only one ethnicity. If anyway the system of navy would be like a battle, but in the water, just make the units could travel on sea and it work the same way anyway. Under those parameters a thousand things SHOULD be added, and their don't have to.
That we pay for a game doesn't give us the power to dictate his creator to what he has to add, he is not our slave. Only if the game isn't finished, don't have what was promised or something like that, demand is logical.
And the game would never compete with Eu4 or Ck3, because Lukasz is just one guy not an entire team. Stop comparing them, setting high expectations leads to great disappointments.
Like I say before, stop being so dramatic, is a game. And don't insult me, your opinion doesn't is better than mine, you aren't God or something like that.

then castles are irrelevant, road lines are irrelevant, factories are irrelevant, religion as a mechanic is irrelevant, different types of land units based on era is irrelevant also, all those are features taken from history, aoh3 is supposed to be a grand strategy that simulates history, which is why it has all the above features, if navy is irrelevant for that reason then the entire purpose of the game isn't there 

 

you cant have a navy battle system.. WITHOUT THE NAVY PART 💀, you obv need ships to explain how your units are walking on water like prophet Jesus and for the units to fight with, otherwise there is no difference 💀

 

the forums exist to voice our opinions, we are voicing our opinions, its not ''dictating'', as the people who will buy the game, we want XYZ features even if not right now, we just want them for XYZ reasons because they make sense and need to be in the game to make it fun, we aren't asking for over the top things, just ships and cultures, those exist in every grand strategy, that's it

 

and in no way was i comparing, as i said, it needs to be somewhat ''on par'' ie: at least have the base concepts of such games, i never said that, you are putting words into my mouth, my entire post is literally ''don't have high expectations for aoh3 because you will be disappointed'' and you are telling me that?

 

i'm not being dramatic at all, all the things i said were valid, it's unfair to call me dramatic because i don't want a core feature to be removed completely, this is what most the community wants

 

lastly i'm sorry if i was rude, that was not the intention, i was just voicing my opinions sarcastically and went a bit too far, i made fun of those who act arrogant with their idea's many times here, i would hate to be no different from them, sorry if you got upset from my language 

 

@Łukasz Jakowski please read my message, i feel like it's unfair to listen to the minority of the community over the vast majority, we want navy, and i don't think you have an issue with it as a concept either since you tried to add it in the first place, we just ask that when you can fix the complications related to it, add it please, no rush or high expectations 

Edited by OwnM3Z0

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15 minutes ago, AmericanLiberia said:

I think that a game with all his features working together would be much better than one with a thousand things to do but everything scattered. Also, the first way I say is better for new people to understand and entering the community :3

why cant cultures and navy work together with everything else? cultures could have bonuses for assimilating different religious provinces with same cultures, or maybe we could have culture exclusive units for navy and land units like viking boats or the boats for the age of discovery etc etc, those features can work amazingly well with the base form of aoh3 as it is now

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3 minutes ago, OwnM3Z0 said:

then castles are irrelevant, road lines are irrelevant, factories are irrelevant, religion as a mechanic is irrelevant, different types of land units based on era is irrelevant also, all those are features taken from history, aoh3 is supposed to be a grand strategy that simulates history, which is why it has all the above features, if navy is irrelevant for that reason then the entire purpose of the game isn't there 

 

you cant have a navy battle system.. WITHOUT THE NAVY PART 💀, you obv need ships to explain how your units are walking on water like prophet Jesus and for the units to fight with, otherwise there is no difference 💀

 

the forums exist to voice our opinions, we are voicing our opinions, its not ''dictating'', as the people who will buy the game, we want XYZ features even if not right now, we just want them for XYZ reasons because they make sense and need to be in the game to make it fun, we aren't asking for over the top things, just ships and cultures, those exist in every grand strategy, that's it

 

and in no way was i comparing, as i said, it needs to be somewhat ''on par'' ie: at least have the base concepts of such games, i never said that, you are putting words into my mouth, my entire post is literally ''don't have high expectations for aoh3 because you will be disappointed'' and you are telling me that?

 

i'm not being dramatic at all, all the things i said were valid, it's unfair to call me dramatic because i don't want a core feature to be removed completely, this is what most the community wants

 

lastly i'm sorry if i was rude, that was not the intention, i was just voicing my opinions sarcastically and went a bit too far, i made fun of those who act arrogant with their idea's many times here, i would hate to be no different from them, sorry if you got upset from my language 

Don't worry, the "tone" is impossible to convey on a text, I just think you where "screaming" because the capital letters.

I say the navy is "irrelevant", because if a deeper system wouldn't be on it and gonna be just like fight or travel troops on water, it don't add anything actually. The factories give plus to a province, that give you more income on that province, blabla. But a game doesn't have to be realistic no those ways.
It isn't a "core system", the two previous game didn't even have it, it was never on any of them (as far as I know).
And I see AoH more like a sandbox than a historic simulator, because it didn't even have a line to follow when you are playing, is pretty much random. That's what made it fun to me, I don't know.
I call you "dramatic" not because your opinion wasn't valid, was because you put it like, without those features, the game would just be bad without remedy and that's not true. I don't see why AoH has to have the exact same things that other games have. If the mechanic gonna be used, fine, but if Lukasz is not going to do anything with it, I don't see the point of adding it no matter how good it may sound (see AoH2: gifts, unions, alliances, coalitions, purchase and sell of provinces, even rivalries among others; where systems that simply don't work).
I see your post like "this doesn't gonna go well anyway", more alarming than giving something I think. It doesn't have to be that way at all.
For ending, because those wall of text could be tedious of reading, put two or more things "on par" is comparing them. If I say "EA have a microtransactions system, AoH3 should have one too", I am comparing them (Lukasz, if you read this, forget that last sentence, isn't a good idea, please don't 🥺). Not gonna start a fight over this thing of comparing (not want to start a fight on any way, it didn't have sense), but it is, sorr   :I

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23 minutes ago, OwnM3Z0 said:

why cant cultures and navy work together with everything else? cultures could have bonuses for assimilating different religious provinces with same cultures, or maybe we could have culture exclusive units for navy and land units like viking boats or the boats for the age of discovery etc etc, those features can work amazingly well with the base form of aoh3 as it is now

Yeah, I agree. Say that navy and cultures, per example, could be "different", if they aren't working together with everything else. They could, but that mean balancing everything, adding water units, ports and places where could be deployed, etc. Cultures and cores are actually pretty similar if they gonna work like you say, and I don't see any other way for them to work (I think, I'm pretty tired now, in my country are the nine of the night and the day was looong).
You already say some examples; culture could ramify in like a thousand things, what means a lot of coding what means more possibility of bugs (that was what I say up). I just see it as unnecessary, for more good it could sound. I also would love a navy on the game, but if doesn't add anything more than a pretty few units, travel on water and so, I don't see it as relevant.

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In other words, I am saying that we already has systems pretty similar to those and don't see why adding more of the same. If they gonna have a "vuelta de tuerca" (I don't know what the expression is on english), yeah, totally, but if not is just meh.

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Just now, AmericanLiberia said:

Don't worry, the "tone" is impossible to convey on a text, I just think you where "screaming" because the capital letters.

I say the navy is "irrelevant", because if a deeper system wouldn't be on it and gonna be just like fight or travel troops on water, it don't add anything actually. The factories give plus to a province, that give you more income on that province, blabla. But a game doesn't have to be realistic no those ways.
It isn't a "core system", the two previous game didn't even have it, it was never on any of them (as far as I know).
And I see AoH more like a sandbox than a historic simulator, because it didn't even have a line to follow when you are playing, is pretty much random. That's what made it fun to me, I don't know.
I call you "dramatic" not because your opinion wasn't valid, was because you put it like, without those features, the game would just be bad without remedy and that's not true. I don't see why AoH has to have the exact same things that other games have. If the mechanic gonna be used, fine, but if Lukasz is not going to do anything with it, I don't see the point of adding it no matter how good it may sound (see AoH2: gifts, unions, alliances, coalitions, purchase and sell of provinces, even rivalries among others; where systems that simply don't work).
I see your post like "this doesn't gonna go well anyway", more alarming than giving something I think. It doesn't have to be that way at all.
For ending, because those wall of text could be tedious of reading, put two or more things "on par" is comparing them. If I say "EA have a microtransactions system, AoH3 should have one too", I am comparing them (Lukasz, if you read this, forget that last sentence, isn't a good idea, please don't 🥺). Not gonna start a fight over this thing of comparing (not want to start a fight on any way, it didn't have sense), but it is, sorr   :I

that's how i write in every post when i want alot of people to see it, it's just how i attract more reactions to push my topic up so it could be seen by Lukasz and it works pretty well as it did for the aoh2 modding community post (even though my opinions were not very based back then they're still partially true)

 

if you look at land battles, they have strategies and shows you the troop movement as the battle progresses, a sea battle would have to be the same, thus making it necessary for a ships mechanic that simulates the exact same battles, plus ships could actually give you bonuses for the future resource trade system lukasz has, and a navy could have many uses in wars like making landings more interesting/challenging, you could even make pre age of discovery ships travel limited sea provinces to simulate real life, maybe you could have an entirely different system where you build a trading ship fleet to trade with that you can convert to a warship fleet during war for a big economic debuff, there's a lot to be done with navy, and i haven't even encroached on cultures yet, i would gladly not mind if cultures were replaced by ethnicity, just dont force me to assimilate the timurid controlled iran like im a foreign invader when i'm playing a persia playthrough

 

all the mechanics cancelled that you mentioned were very good and could have easily become amazing and fun features with alot of remedy, they had alot of potential, they just weren't pushed to their potential, that part is incorrect because those features didn't lead anywhere because of lukasz, not the features themselves, unions could have been divided into personal unions that then integrated into an absolute union over time, if an idea is good but nothing is done with it, then you should have an issue with the dev who didn't do what he could to make it good, not the person asking for the idea to be expanded to its potential (no offense to lukasz)

 

the microtransactions from EA are greedy, add no mechanics to the gameplay, and everyone hates them, whereas cultures and navy are always a pleasant feature that no one moans about in grand strategy games, one feature is added out of greed, another is a gameplay feature, not the best example to use

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6 minutes ago, AmericanLiberia said:

Yeah, I agree. Say that navy and cultures, per example, could be "different", if they aren't working together with everything else. They could, but that mean balancing everything, adding water units, ports and places where could be deployed, etc. Cultures and cores are actually pretty similar if they gonna work like you say, and I don't see any other way for them to work (I think, I'm pretty tired now, in my country are the nine of the night and the day was looong).
You already say some examples; culture could ramify in like a thousand things, what means a lot of coding what means more possibility of bugs (that was what I say up). I just see it as unnecessary, for more good it could sound. I also would love a navy on the game, but if doesn't add anything more than a pretty few units, travel on water and so, I don't see it as relevant.

cultures and cores are not similar, you don't have a core on a neighbouring city that is literally your same ethnicity, language, and religion, if you conquered them it would be no different from conquering a foreign nation, cultures are more of an extension to the core system

 

all the issues you listed could literally (as i said many times before) be justification to not add many features already added like land units and religions which lukasz said he will focus on again, your argument for why those features are not neccasary is ''they need programming, might add bugs too'' which is the entire game, adding new features is a process, i don't see your point, those bugs could be patched and lukasz can program the features with no problem for cultures, his issue with cultures is manually assigning them to each civ, your point is only somewhat valid for navy since lukasz cant add navy until he can develop an AI smart enough to use them, meaning the issue lukasz has with navy isn't even your argument, its a completely separate thing: AI, and he will probably overcome that at some point 

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9 minutes ago, AmericanLiberia said:

In other words, I am saying that we already has systems pretty similar to those and don't see why adding more of the same. If they gonna have a "vuelta de tuerca" (I don't know what the expression is on english), yeah, totally, but if not is just meh.

we don't have naval battles, and we still are treated by a civilization that shares same religion, homeland, ethnicity, language, history with ours as foreign invaders, it's not realistic, its annoying, and it's weird

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3 minutes ago, OwnM3Z0 said:

that's how i write in every post when i want alot of people to see it, it's just how i attract more reactions to push my topic up so it could be seen by Lukasz and it works pretty well as it did for the aoh2 modding community post (even though my opinions were not very based back then they're still partially true)

 

if you look at land battles, they have strategies and shows you the troop movement as the battle progresses, a sea battle would have to be the same, thus making it necessary for a ships mechanic that simulates the exact same battles, plus ships could actually give you bonuses for the future resource trade system lukasz has, and a navy could have many uses in wars like making landings more interesting/challenging, you could even make pre age of discovery ships travel limited sea provinces to simulate real life, maybe you could have an entirely different system where you build a trading ship fleet to trade with that you can convert to a warship fleet during war for a big economic debuff, there's a lot to be done with navy, and i haven't even encroached on cultures yet, i would gladly not mind if cultures were replaced by ethnicity, just dont force me to assimilate the timurid controlled iran like im a foreign invader when i'm playing a persia playthrough

 

all the mechanics cancelled that you mentioned were very good and could have easily become amazing and fun features with alot of remedy, they had alot of potential, they just weren't pushed to their potential, that part is incorrect because those features didn't lead anywhere because of lukasz, not the features themselves, unions could have been divided into personal unions that then integrated into an absolute union over time, if an idea is good but nothing is done with it, then you should have an issue with the dev who didn't do what he could to make it good, not the person asking for the idea to be expanded to its potential (no offense to lukasz)

 

the microtransactions from EA are greedy, add no mechanics to the gameplay, and everyone hates them, whereas cultures and navy are always a pleasant feature that no one moans about in grand strategy games, one feature is added out of greed, another is a gameplay feature, not the best example to use

Ah, that way of posting sounds pretty agresive haha.

Maybe instead of navy (that Lukasz don't want to add, maybe because is not on his plans or because it complicate the things, whatever the reason) could be different "terrains" on water, like open sea, rough waters, straits and so on; are more easy to program and use from base the already added system. I see your ideas as pretty complex, again, if they not gonna be expanded on some way (as you say or in any other) are irrelevant.
And adding aaaall those things is unlikely. I say those things of the old systems of unions and so, because is Lukasz who is codding (like you say), if he doesn't want to explore the systems, is better for them to not be in the game and that he just focus on something else. We agree on that.
And the core system work like that culture system you said (¿): if you have core on a province, more people is on your population (what is more like "support" than population to be assimilated, but anyway) and assimilation is less expensive. The assimilation mechanic isn't realistic in any way, because again, is a game, not a history simulator.
And yes, my example was lazy and estrange, if the point is understandable work for me.

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2 minutes ago, OwnM3Z0 said:

A Completely peaceful topic with no issue that everyone likes

OwnM3Z0 having an argument with Anti Navy/Culture person In The Replies:

image.gif.bb88853003122173ce24d8805ffae4d5.gif

I'm not "anti navy/culture" haha. I say if they don't gonna be explored by Lukasz, just keep them out

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1 minute ago, AmericanLiberia said:

Ah, that way of posting sounds pretty agresive haha.

Maybe instead of navy (that Lukasz don't want to add, maybe because is not on his plans or because it complicate the things, whatever the reason) could be different "terrains" on water, like open sea, rough waters, straits and so on; are more easy to program and use from base the already added system. I see your ideas as pretty complex, again, if they not gonna be expanded on some way (as you say or in any other) are irrelevant.
And adding aaaall those things is unlikely. I say those things of the old systems of unions and so, because is Lukasz who is codding (like you say), if he doesn't want to explore the systems, is better for them to not be in the game and that he just focus on something else. We agree on that.
And the core system work like that culture system you said (¿): if you have core on a province, more people is on your population (what is more like "support" than population to be assimilated, but anyway) and assimilation is less expensive. The assimilation mechanic isn't realistic in any way, because again, is a game, not a history simulator.
And yes, my example was lazy and estrange, if the point is understandable work for me.

my suggestion wasn't a suggestion, but an example of how versatile navy is since u said lukasz cant use them, i agree that the ideas provided are complicated, but my point was that there is potential

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10 minutes ago, OwnM3Z0 said:

cultures and cores are not similar, you don't have a core on a neighbouring city that is literally your same ethnicity, language, and religion, if you conquered them it would be no different from conquering a foreign nation, cultures are more of an extension to the core system

 

all the issues you listed could literally (as i said many times before) be justification to not add many features already added like land units and religions which lukasz said he will focus on again, your argument for why those features are not neccasary is ''they need programming, might add bugs too'' which is the entire game, adding new features is a process, i don't see your point, those bugs could be patched and lukasz can program the features with no problem for cultures, his issue with cultures is manually assigning them to each civ, your point is only somewhat valid for navy since lukasz cant add navy until he can develop an AI smart enough to use them, meaning the issue lukasz has with navy isn't even your argument, its a completely separate thing: AI, and he will probably overcome that at some point 

If they are a extension is because they are similar ._.
The difference between the other systems and the navy, is that the navy isn't programmed, that is what are we talking haha. I say they aren't necessary because, if they not gonna be explored, just don't mean anything and are like fighting on sea and nothing more. The bugs and time consuming part is a plus, and patching bugs is not that easy to do anyway, experience talking, you sometimes don't even know what goes wrong.
And not really, the navy could be added before AI to show it, just like the battle system, if Lukasz want navy to be added.

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4 minutes ago, AmericanLiberia said:

I'm not "anti navy/culture" haha. I say if they don't gonna be explored by Lukasz, just keep them out

it's a meme batman

 

features don't have to be explored, why can't we have good base features

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1 minute ago, OwnM3Z0 said:

my suggestion wasn't a suggestion, but an example of how versatile navy is since u said lukasz cant use them, i agree that the ideas provided are complicated, but my point was that there is potential

Yeah, obviously are potential, the ideas are that. But again, if they don't gonna be explored, is useless

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1 minute ago, OwnM3Z0 said:

it's a meme batman

 

features don't have to be explored, why can't we have good base features

Sorr, I don't understand jokes well 😛

By "exploring" I mean they are complete. Like the strategies, travel and casualties on the battle system and so.

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Just now, AmericanLiberia said:

Yeah, obviously are potential, the ideas are that. But again, if they don't gonna be explored, is useless

why do idea's have to be explored, good features can be added and not need more, it's a good base concept, lukasz won't need to add much to them and we would be happy

 

also isn't the more they are explored the more complicated they become? counterintuitive much?

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    • Land units - Ideas AoH3
      AoH3 will have different types of land units.

      In this topic we will write ideas for new land units. 

       

      So the AoH 3 will have new battle system.


      Representation of the battlefield in the game.


      Land units will be grouped into 3 types. Each unit will have a different recruitment cost, attack, defense, movement speed and upkeep.

      Groups determine the placement of units on the battlefield.


       

      Each unit can be unlocked by researching technology and then upgraded.

       

      Here is the current list of units with upgrades:

      First line:

      Warrior -> Light Footmen -> Heavy Infantry -> Infantry -> Line Infantry -> Modern Infantry

      Hoplites -> Spearmen -> Pikeman -> Elite Pikeman -> Musketeer -> Riflemen -> Mechanized Infantry -> Modern Mechanized Infantry

      First line side:

      Horseman -> Elite Horseman -> Cavalry -> Tank -> Modern Tank

      Second line:

      Archer -> Bowmen -> Crossbowman -> Elite Crossbowman

      Canon -> Field Cannon -> Artillery -> Modern Artillery

      Early Airplane -> Airplane -> Modern Airplane

       

      This is a very early version, so maybe something should be changed?

      Or maybe an idea for a new type of unit with upgrades? I'm waiting for your suggestions.

       
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