New War System

[Keguca10 98]

@Łukasz Jakowski Hello everyone, I am writing this suggestion because I feel that the war declaration system is poorly done and as you progress through the game the maps will become very distorted.

What I mean, well, all of us who have played Age of History II know that with the current war system countries conquer provinces without sense and the maps are deformed in a bad way making that as you advance in the game the maps are horrible and lose realism. 

So to solve this problem I propose to change the war system depending on the era, it sounds complicated, but it is not, now I will explain it better.

I propose that there should be a diplomacy section (I think there is already one), but it should be more useful. These diplomacy points would allow to declare wars for an objective. Instead of declaring a war just for the sake of it, these points would allow you to declare a war for a province, county, kingdom, etc... Declaring wars for x amount of territories will depend on the amount of diplomacy points you have, as in the game of Crusader Kings III. This way you can make wars more meaningful and realistic, the bigger your country is the more diplomacy points you get, so you can conquer more territories. 

I think this method is very practical for making sense of conquest and improving the war AI in the long run, and it is not too difficult for Lukasz to implement in the game.

Edited February 14, 2024 by Keguca10

[Wayne23lololh 1,638]

5 minutes ago, Keguca10 said:

Hello everyone, I am writing this suggestion because I feel that the war declaration system is poorly done and as you progress through the game the maps will become very distorted.

What I mean, well, all of us who have played Age of History II know that with the current war system countries conquer provinces without sense and the maps are deformed in a bad way making that as you advance in the game the maps are horrible and lose realism. 

So to solve this problem I propose to change the war system depending on the era, it sounds complicated, but it is not, now I will explain it better.

I propose that there should be a diplomacy section (I think there is already one), but it should be more useful. These diplomacy points would allow to declare wars for an objective. Instead of declaring a war just for the sake of it, these points would allow you to declare a war for a province, county, kingdom, etc... Declaring wars for x amount of territories will depend on the amount of diplomacy points you have, as in the game of Crusader Kings III. This way you can make wars more meaningful and realistic, the bigger your country is the more diplomacy points you get, so you can conquer more territories. 

I think this method is very practical for making sense of conquest and improving the war AI in the long run, and it is not too difficult for Lukasz to implement in the game.

Great. But for war goal, there are also to remplace other's countries governments. This feature was not present in AOH2.

e.g : France declare war to German reich to dissolve the empire and install an other government.

[Keguca10 98]

2 minutes ago, Wayne23lololh said:

Great. But for war goal, there are also to remplace other's countries governments. This feature was not present in AOH2.

e.g : France declare war to German reich to dissolve the empire and install an other government.

Yes, there may be many more options. Another example of what you said is the Second French Intervention in México, invade a country to change her government to a Monarchy favorable to you. 

[WATER 227]

I can say this: thought matters. True, I’ll start with the fact that some of the diplomacy points for capturing certain territories were already in the second part. True, it has a different name and looks. If the conditional Luxembourg completely captures France, then Luxembourg will not be able to take all of France. But only a small part. And if a large country like Russia captures all of France, then in a peace treaty it will be possible to take the whole country.

But yes, it's not enough. We need more of this in the game. Also a justification for war over certain territories. If you previously had this territory, then it will be easier to justify and take it away in a peace treaty than any other.

[Barbaris 115]

So I thought about it and here are a few possible goals of the war:
1. well, for example, you are playing for some German principality and you want to form a German empire. all the territories that will be included in it will be like "national" and you will have the right to justify the war under the pretext of the liberation of national territories. That's the first thing that came to my mind.

2. War to ensure security. This goal is necessary in order not to completely capture the country. For example, a country has joined an alliance or a country is amassing troops at your borders. All this is a threat to your safety and you declare war first. After the war, you can annex only a part of the territories (you will not be able to annex the country completely even with a complete seizure). In the rest of the territories, you will change the regime (or make it a puppet). I would also like to add demilitarization (the country does not have the right to deploy troops in certain provinces. I would also like to add in the peace treaty the possibility to ban the development of nuclear weapons or to ban military developments altogether.

3. The Liberation War. This is only for vassals, they can declare war to become free from the overlord.

4. War to return the legitimate regime or to change the current regime. You declare the government of civilization illegal and invade. During the peace treaty, you only change the power in the country to a puppet one.

I would also like to suggest that if you have a good relationship with a civilization, then you cannot attack it to a certain level of relationship. It would be strange to declare war on a civilization with a +20 relationship.

You can suggest your ideas to improve these ideas in the comments.

[Rodak Polak 597]

I strongly agree that war system definitely need improvements. My requests are:

• the capital cannot be annexed until all other provinces have been annexed
• the area that we can annex should depend on our ruler and his negotiation skills (I have already written about it, that some rulers would give a bonus in peace talks so that we could take more) - for example Gengis Khan, Napoleon or austrian painter
• in AoH3 if Luxembourg was lucky, attack Germany from behind and wins the war they could annex area with 10x more german than the Luxembourg have. So I think that it should be limit that you can not annex area that have more citizens than you have in your country
• maybe should be an option to declare war for core province of enemy or provinces that are not core yet (like colonies in America. Example from history - First French Colonial Empire  and lose of French Louisiana). Declaration war for core province should be extra paid (for example 10 000 gold. I dont know if it will be to much beacuse we dont have optimalized game yet)

[Barbaris 115]

5. The Holy War. You are declaring war on a civilization with another religion. As a result, you can: annex part of the territories to yourself and change the religious composition there, force the country itself to change religion (I hope this can be done), liberate a province with some kind of sacred building (it can be, for example, a temple, but only historically significant) or a city (like Jerusalem), you can also force At peace conferences, another country with a different religious composition should be isolated from the country (for example, Russia wanted to liberate the Balkans).

[Rodak Polak 597]

10 minutes ago, Barbaris said:

1. well, for example, you are playing for some German principality and you want to form a German empire. all the territories that will be included in it will be like "national" and you will have the right to justify the war under the pretext of the liberation of national territories. That's the first thing that came to my mind.

That is why we need nationalities in the game (they can work exactly like religion but without any bonuses or disadventages

[Rodak Polak 597]

28 minutes ago, Barbaris said:

I would also like to suggest that if you have a good relationship with a civilization, then you cannot attack it to a certain level of relationship. It would be strange to declare war on a civilization with a +20 relationship.

I agree with one difference. It should be impossible to declare war to the country you have signed a non agressive pact with.

Also it is logical that when you attack your friend, you lose credibility and your relationships with others deteriorate so my proposition is - when you attack something you have (for example) realtions +20, your realtions withe any other country immadiately damaging -20. It can be something like "agressive expansion" and you have punishment for attacking your frineds and nothing happens when you attack your enemy

Edited February 14, 2024 by Rodak Polak

[WATER 227]

33 minutes ago, Barbaris said:

Вот я задумался и вот несколько возможных целей войны:
1. ну, например, вы играете за какое-то немецкое княжество и хотите образовать Германскую империю. все территории которые в него войдут будут как бы "национальными" и вы будете иметь право оправдывать войну под предлогом освобождения национальных территорий. Это первое, что пришло мне на ум.

2. Война за обеспечение безопасности. Эта цель необходима для того, чтобы не захватить страну полностью. Например, страна присоединилась к альянсу или страна собирает войска у ваших границ. Все это представляет угрозу вашей безопасности и вы первым объявляете войну. После войны вы сможете аннексировать только часть территорий (аннексировать страну полностью даже при полном захвате не получится). На остальных территориях вы смените режим (или сделаете его марионеточным). Еще хотелось бы добавить демилитаризацию (страна не имеет права размещать войска в определенных провинциях. Еще хотелось бы добавить в мирный договор возможность запретить разработку ядерного оружия или вообще запретить военные разработки.

3. Освободительная война. Это только для вассалов, они могут объявить войну, чтобы освободиться от сюзерена.

4. Война за возвращение законного режима или за смену нынешнего режима. Вы объявляете правительство цивилизации незаконным и вторгаетесь. При мирном договоре вы лишь меняете власть в стране на марионеточную.

Я также хотел бы предположить, что если у вас хорошие отношения с цивилизацией, вы не можете атаковать ее до определенного уровня отношений. Было бы странно объявлять войну цивилизации с отношением +20.

Вы можете предложить свои идеи по улучшению этих идей в комментариях.

You can try to divide all states and peoples into groups. As Barbaris said: Germans unite Germans. Slavs of Slavs. Also by religion. Etc.

[Wayne23lololh 1,638]

Also the fact is to declare war on a country who is in the same alliance as yours, then it deteriorates with all the countries in the alliance. Except if it has a war justification such as treason (maybe spy the country)  or non-respect of the ethnic minority population.

[qxz 622]

Brilliant idea!

[Keguca10 98]

1 hour ago, Barbaris said:

5. The Holy War. You are declaring war on a civilization with another religion. As a result, you can: annex part of the territories to yourself and change the religious composition there, force the country itself to change religion (I hope this can be done), liberate a province with some kind of sacred building (it can be, for example, a temple, but only historically significant) or a city (like Jerusalem), you can also force At peace conferences, another country with a different religious composition should be isolated from the country (for example, Russia wanted to liberate the Balkans).

That could be great too

[WATER 227]

We are waiting for Lukash's response.

[alpht 3]

good idea 

[WATER 227]

On 14.02.2024 at 15:46, Rodak Polak said:

Именно поэтому нам нужны в игре национальности (они могут работать точно так же, как религия, но без каких-либо бонусов и недостатков).

In essence they exist, but they have little role.

[telinn 3]

On 14/02/2024 at 09:15, Keguca10 said:

@Łukasz JakowskiOlá a todos, estou escrevendo esta sugestão porque sinto que o sistema de declaração de guerra está mal feito e conforme você avança no jogo os mapas ficarão muito distorcidos.

O que quero dizer, bem, todos nós que jogamos Age of History II sabemos que com o atual sistema de guerra os países conquistam províncias sem sentido e os mapas ficam mal deformados fazendo com que conforme você avança no jogo os mapas fiquem horríveis e perder o realismo. 

Então para resolver esse problema proponho mudar o sistema de guerra dependendo da época, parece complicado, mas não é, agora vou explicar melhor.

Proponho que haja uma secção de diplomacia (penso que já existe), mas deveria ser mais útil. Estes pontos de diplomacia permitiriam declarar guerras por um objectivo. Em vez de declarar uma guerra apenas por fazer, esses pontos permitiriam que você declarasse uma guerra para uma província, condado, reino, etc... Declarar guerras por x quantidade de territórios dependerá da quantidade de pontos de diplomacia que você tem , como no jogo Crusader Kings III. Desta forma você pode tornar as guerras mais significativas e realistas, quanto maior for o seu país, mais pontos de diplomacia você ganha, para poder conquistar mais territórios. 

Acho que esse método é muito prático para dar sentido à conquista e melhorar a IA da guerra no longo prazo, e não é muito difícil para Lukasz implementá-lo no jogo.

He said it all man said it all. Lukkasz will definitely see this, your idea is great 

[xox 339]

Lukas read this

[xox 339]

On 2/15/2024 at 1:15 AM, Keguca10 said:

@Łukasz Jakowski Hello everyone, I am writing this suggestion because I feel that the war declaration system is poorly done and as you progress through the game the maps will become very distorted.

What I mean, well, all of us who have played Age of History II know that with the current war system countries conquer provinces without sense and the maps are deformed in a bad way making that as you advance in the game the maps are horrible and lose realism. 

So to solve this problem I propose to change the war system depending on the era, it sounds complicated, but it is not, now I will explain it better.

I propose that there should be a diplomacy section (I think there is already one), but it should be more useful. These diplomacy points would allow to declare wars for an objective. Instead of declaring a war just for the sake of it, these points would allow you to declare a war for a province, county, kingdom, etc... Declaring wars for x amount of territories will depend on the amount of diplomacy points you have, as in the game of Crusader Kings III. This way you can make wars more meaningful and realistic, the bigger your country is the more diplomacy points you get, so you can conquer more territories. 

I think this method is very practical for making sense of conquest and improving the war AI in the long run, and it is not too difficult for Lukasz to implement in the game.

Lukas read above

[Keguca10 98]

Lukasz please read my topic.

[Wayne23lololh 1,638]

I hope that this won't be forgotten and put into nothingness. 🌑

Edited March 31, 2024 by Wayne23lololh

[Keguca10 98]

I hope too this topic has more than 3000k views

 

[Thefernofrommars 88]

Add infamy, conquering/annexing provinces costs infamy, the smaller your country the more infamy you burn, the larger your country is the harder it is to burn infamy (similar to how it is in real life)
Reaching a certain infamy threshold will cause your country to have more revolts and get embargo'd
The infamy-embargo will pretty much tank income until you're below the infamy threshold.

Would keep players from map painting and keep them more to roleplaying (which I think would make the general experience better)
Alternatively, infamy can only be enabled in the mid-game (1700) or ramp up in it's effects.
This would also fill the map out more, and lead to larger countries forming and adequately competing with the player without any use of AI-cheating via difficulty options.

[Thefernofrommars 88]

Also, if he likes your suggestion he usually doesn't respond, he'll just put a thumbs up on the post.

[Keguca10 98]

Lukasz hope you read this. I repeat this would be a great system and your AI would be better, this battle system is the system added to games like CK3 and helps with border griefing