diplomacy New Diplomacy Options, Ultimatums, War Justification and Unions

[MisterT 93]

Good morning, afternoon or evening ladies and gentlemen. I bring a new idea and this time about diplomacy. As always, I will try not to extend too much.

I will only talk about the new options, those that bring some change or raise some doubt as to how it would work properly and the deleted options. Let's get started.

 

Declare War: This is something that requires no introduction, its name alone indicates what it does. What I will explain below is a mechanic of how War Declaration could work.

Before starting with one of the biggest changes in War Declaration, I want to clarify that this section will work as a sub-idea within the main one and it's totally optional to read, the rest of the functions can work correctly even if this mechanic is not implemented.

• You can declare war at any time, regardless of whether you have a non-aggression pact, an alliance, or do not have a War Goal Justification. So what are these options for if you can declare war at any time? Simple, avoid punishment. In AOH3 it has already been seen in many videos that there will be two mechanics (maybe more) that work as a disadvantage if you go around declaring war, the first is War Weariness and the second is Aggressive Expansion. Despite not having a detailed explanation of each mechanic, their names already tell us enough about how they could work. 
•  Declaring war on an allied civilization, one with which you have a non-aggression pact, one in which your troops are in their territory when they gave you military access, or simply declaring war without a War Goal justification, is going to be extremely punishing. for your civilization, affecting the amount of War Weariness you gain over time and the amount of Aggressive Expansion you will gain. 
• The purpose of being able to declare war at any time is to make the game more realistic. We all know that Germany invaded the USSR without prior notice even when they had a non-aggression pact. Clearly, declaring war when you are not supposed to is heavily punishable and the ideal thing would be not to do so. I want to emphasize again that this mechanic of declaring war at any time is something completely separate from the rest of the post and works as a sub-idea.

 

Justify War Goal: An option that has been highly requested by the community since it was announced that AOH3 is in development. At least in my idea, you can justify war under multiple parameters, each one will be more punishable depending on how "imperialist" it is. Each option will give an amount of Aggressive Expansion, This amount that you get is when you make the justification, Lukasz probably adds that you get more Aggressive Expansion with the demands you make in peace treaties (Since I don't know how Aggressive Expansion scales, I'll just add values like "Low", "Medium" or "High").

 

 

• Brush: It allows you to choose the provinces you are going to conquer, the more provinces you choose, the greater the amount of Aggressive Expansion you get when justifying war. Provinces with your Cores have a -50% reduction in Aggressive Expansion. Selected provinces get a discount on peace treaties (Unless you have selected 70% of the civilization provinces). The amount of Aggressive expansion obtained by normal provinces is Medium (High if it is 50% of the provinces of the civilization) and Low if are provinces with your Cores.
• Humiliation: A War justification for diplomatic purposes, humiliating your opponent leaves him in a bad position diplomatically and adds a -5% happiness/stability modifier. If your opponent is a declared Rival, then it removes the rivalry and the modifier changes to -10%, in addition it adds a +5% happiness/stability modifier to your civilization. Using this justification makes all options in peace treaties more expensive. The amount obtained from Aggressive Expansion is Low.

• Pacification: Only available in civilizations whose aggressive expansion is medium high or civilizations that have broken a treaty. Winning with this justification adds the same Humiliation modifier (Without rivalry). Adds a discount to each option in peace treaties except Religion Conversion, Demand Vassalization, Demand Vassal Transfer and Brush (province annexation). The amount of Aggressive Expansion is Null.
• Change Government: Its purpose is to be able to change the type of government of a civilization. Winning against an opponent using this justification gives you a discount when selecting Change Government.in peace treaties and increases provinces annexation cost. Aggressive Expansion amount is Medium.
• Religious Conversion: Justifies the change of religion of a civilization for your religion. Gives a discount on Religion Conversion when peace treaties are made and increases provinces annexation cost. The amount obtained of Aggressive Expansion is Low.
• Vassalization: Begins the justification for vassalizing the enemy civilization. Gives a discount on Demand Vassalization option in peace treaties. The amount obtained from Aggressive Expansion is Medium.
• Vassal Transfer: A justification that demands the transfer of a vassal from the enemy civilization to you. Offers a discount on Demand Vassal Transfer but the cost of annexation of provinces increases. The amount of Aggressive Expansion obtained is Medium Low.
• Military Access: Justifies starting a war after the target civilization has refused to offer you military access. Makes the Demand Military Access option free, but all other options have an increased cost. The amount of Aggressive Expansion obtained is Low.
• Liberate Civilization: Starts a justification to liberate a civilization from another that has previously conquered it. It gives a discount on the option of the same name in peace treaties, but significantly increases the costs of all other options. The amount of Aggressive Expansion obtained is Null.

 

--- The following War Goal Justification options have no parallel in peace treaties. Which means that they are not added to the game, I will probably make an idea where I will deal with the these options and some extras in the peace treaties. ---

 

• Force Resource Trade: Justifies starting a war in order to start trading a resource produced by that civilization. Aggressive Expansion is Low.

• Force Law Change: Justifies a war to change some law of that civilization. The amount of Aggressive Expansion obtained is Low.

• Force Union: Begins justification to force a Union with the enemy civilization. The amount of Aggressive Expansion you get by this justification is Medium High.

 

--- The latest War Goal is made to combine with the @Wayne23lololh idea of Cultures and Nationalities. ---

 

• Culture Unification: A justification for war that demands the unification of a separate culture through the conquest of those provinces. Offer a notable Score discount in provinces that have a National Claim. The amount of Aggressive Expansion obtained is Medium.

 

You can select more than one War Goal (It has a limit based on your type of government) and depending on the number of demands you make, the size of the enemy civilization's army, and its global top ranking, the justification may take a few weeks to several months to complete. When a justification has been completed, it can be valid for one to several years, this factor is determined by the amount of time you waited for the justification to be completed (1 Month or Less = 1 Year validation. 2 Months = 2 Years and so it goes on and on)

 

Send an Ultimatum: One of the best options that exist in AOH2 and the reason is that its because is an idea with a lot of potential that I had not seen in any other Grand Strategy game (And also because is OP). 

 

 

The options that were excluded from the main diplomacy panel are found in the Ultimatum, since their existence was not necessary in the main panel if I simply add them in the Ultimatum options. If a civilization rejects your Ultimatum, then you will automatically obtain a War Goal Justification based on the demand you demanded in the Ultimatum. It is worth mentioning that the waiting time for a Justification still applies.

 

Ask for Guarantee: I had already included this option in a previous post, but it can be applied to any civilization that is "weak" and seeks protection. When asking a civilization of greater power for a guarantee, it may or may not reject you, it all depends on your relations with that civilization and its military capacity, if you ask this to a weaker civilization then they just gonna reject the offer.

 

Send Trade: Start a trade that can be a one-time trade or a constant trade (Similar to the trades in the Civilization games). I will not deal with the topic of trade in this post because it simply seems to me to be a very extensive topic, similar to the extra options in peace treaties I am going to make a post dedicated to dealing with trade.

 

Declare Union: Another of the diplomatic interactions that existed in AOH2. This is personally my favorite option, I always liked the idea of forming Confederations and similar things, but as far as we have seen, it hasn't been added to AOH3 yet. That's why I bring it back (and more extended). 

 

 

To begin with, to form a Union, certain conditions must be true, things like being in an alliance and having a strong positive relationship with the country is mandatory, some factors can also help you accept them more easily, If the civilization is your vassal, has your Cores or you have theirs, it can influence even more them to accept the Union, obviously only if you have good relations with that civilization. If the civilization is a vassal of another, then declaring a Union will not be allowed. It is worth mentioning that depending on the level of autonomy that each Union allows, civilization has more or less chances of accepting.

Confederation: The union with the most autonomy of all, when a state or group of states join together in a Confederation, All states that are under a Confederation have two leaders, the leader of the Confederation (The one from the player's civilization or the one that created the Confederacy) and the state leader (The normal leader of the civilization). 

The leader of the Confederation will be able to freely intervene in any of the civilizations that are part of it, as if those civilizations were an extension of the leading civilization, however, The leader of the confederation will not be able to manage the armies nor will he be able to administer the Civilization Legacy. Similar to how it works in Bloody Europe in Free-Play Mode, when you click on any of the flags of the countries that are part of a Confederation, you will be able to manage that civilization. 

Civilizations that are part of a Confederation can leave it at any time, so it is important to maintain good relations if you are the leader. In turn, nations that are part of a confederation can leave it due to the intervention of third parties, things such as rebellions, establishment of a new government or invasion of that civilization can end in that civilization leaving the Confederation.

 

Personal Union: Similar to the Confederation, the Personal Union can be interpreted as an intermediate point between the Confederation and the Real Union. If a Civilization agrees to be part of a Personal Union, its leader portrait will change to the one who sent the proposal and the leader will manage both civilizations as if they were one, without limitations like the Confederacy. Just like in the Confederation, if the player is the leader of the Personal Union, they can switch between civilizations by clicking on their flags.

Civilizations that are part of a personal Union cannot break the Union or separate on their own as in the Confederation, but they can still separate through third parties intervention. Civilizations that are part of a Personal Union can still evolve into a Real Union if it is maintained long enough. 

 

Real Union: The Real Union is the most complicated of the 3 and the one that is most difficult for another civilization to accept. The easiest way to get a Real Union is if you are patient enough for the civilizations that are part of a Personal Union to accept (Civilizations that are part of a Personal Union will gradually have more chances of accepting a Real Union).

The Real Union unites both civilizations into a single political entity, creating a new country in the process. The capital is established in the capital city of the country that sent the Union proposal. There's not much to say about this Union, its gameplay is basically the same as always but you obtain territory peacefully and that's it.

 

 

If you really took the task of reading the entire post, I appreciate your attention and I would also appreciate if you share your opinion about it. I will try to answer each question

Well, that's all, thank you comrades! 😄

Edited July 13, 2024 by MisterT

[Matvey 252]

Awesome idea, comrade. I hope it becomes popular on the forum

[Naval 212]

based

[Dipto479 117]

@Łukasz Jakowski

[Wayne23lololh 1,645]

I love it ! Confederation and unions would fit with my idea of centralization, but extended ! Maybe if culture's added, a cultural war justification, to unite its people.

Its a MASTERCLASS 🌟

Edited July 13, 2024 by Wayne23lololh

[Wayne23lololh 1,645]

I have one though : Would "declare war" have all these options, but "justify war goals" don't ?

Because if a country wants to annex some province, change the foe's government and turn it into a vassal, justify war goals would focus only on one thing. So "declare war" option would be more general.

[MisterT 93]

35 minutes ago, Wayne23lololh said:

I love it ! Confederation and unions would fit with my idea of centralization, but extended ! Maybe if culture's added, a cultural war justification, to unite its people.

Its a MASTERCLASS 🌟

I was reading your idea of Centralization and I simply loved it. I didn't want to delve too deeply into how to make a properly Confederation mechanic because I feel that I already went too far with the justification of war and I didn't want to make the post too big. But even so, applying your idea with mine is just perfect (from my point of view) it would work extremely well. The truth is that I also had to have thought of a justification for war based on culture, it seems something like: 

Culture Unification: A justification for war that demands the unification of a separate culture through the conquest of those provinces. Offer a notable Score discount in provinces that have a National Claim (Which I personally consider a different claim from the Core, since the Core is related to civilization and the National Claim to culture and nation, right?). The amount of Aggressive Expansion obtained is Medium.

What do you think?

[Wayne23lololh 1,645]

I like it !

[MisterT 93]

31 minutes ago, Wayne23lololh said:

I have one though : Would "declare war" have all these options, but "justify war goals" don't ?

Because if a country wants to annex some province, change the foe's government and turn it into a vassal, justify war goals would focus only on one thing. So "declare war" option would be more general.

Exactly! If you really don't want to give yourself the task of focusing on a single objective you can just declare war and that's it, however it can be very punishing. 

The main reason for the limits of each War Goal is to prevent you from taking advantage of a war where the focus is supposed to be another. I also think that I should add (or more like specify) the option of being able to select more than one War Goal and thus the discount or increase benefits accumulate or mutually cancel each other. Although another reason for all this was because of Balancing.

[Wayne23lololh 1,645]

22 minutes ago, MisterT said:

Exactly! If you really don't want to give yourself the task of focusing on a single objective you can just declare war and that's it, however it can be very punishing. 

The main reason for the limits of each War Goal is to prevent you from taking advantage of a war where the focus is supposed to be another. I also think that I should add (or more like specify) the option of being able to select more than one War Goal and thus the discount or increase benefits accumulate or mutually cancel each other. Although another reason for all this was because of Balancing.

It a good choice, a small military intervention to change a corrupt government should not be seen as big than a pure and simple war of aggression

[Wayne23lololh 1,645]

This topic makes you win the most liked person yesterday ! Congrats MisterT

[el estrategico 15]

Muy buena idea 

[qxz 622]

Awesome

[MisterT 93]

11 hours ago, Wayne23lololh said:

This topic makes you win the most liked person yesterday ! Congrats MisterT

Thanks :D!!!

[Wayne23lololh 1,645]

1 minute ago, MisterT said:

Thanks :D!!!

You're welcome !

[Siamese 96]

W Idea

[YusufAliDE 246]

War justification is best idea

[malek 4]

i just wanted to ask is this idea connected in any way with the mod DIPLOMACY+ that is in beta

do you have any connections with the developers or are one of developers

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3389601054&searchtext=+Aoh3+Diplomacy%2B+mod

Edited February 11, 2025 by malek